26-04-2002 21:55									#1
	Palestinians falsifying evidence for the UN comitte Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Security sources in Israel said that they have evidence that the Palestinains are adding bodies to "group graves" which didn't originate in Jenin during the fights, to create the impact of a massacare.

This comes after several news agencies including BBC began reproting that inspite the claims, the number of bodies found in Jenin isn't that large at all.

	26-04-2002 21:56									#2
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I demand a source that is not directly linked to either Israel or the other site. So an English-language Israeli news site doesn't count

	26-04-2002 21:59									#4
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Well, you should not have delayed the UN investigationand given time for the fix, eeh?

	26-04-2002 22:02									#5
	Re: Palestinians falsifying evidence for the UN comitte Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov This comes after several news agencies including BBC began reproting that inspite the claims, the number of bodies found in Jenin isn't that large at all.

So how many bodies does it take to be classified a massacre?

	26-04-2002 22:04									#6
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That question is totally nonsensical. A massacre is not a technical term, or at least shouldn't be. Any case of murder with many people involved is a massacre, and now don't as kwhat many means.

Good point by Lefty there. It's so easy to say "STOP!" to investigators (and ambulances for that matter) and afterwards say"oh, it's too late now, now stop living in the past and let's look into the future. fine, we won the battle. we want 90%".

	26-04-2002 22:12									#7
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You can be certain that the UN investigation will be HIGHLY skeptical of any calim of falsely planted bodies except with uniquivicble evidence such a forensic or video of them being fakes.

	26-04-2002 22:16									#8
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What about the settlements? Or that win-win peace agreement of 2 weeks before Sharon being elected that never got mentioned in the big media (one of Barak's last achievements, shortly after that big 22% one was officially dumped. that one had been called the best offer Israel could make, yet shortly later they came up with that new paper but never had a chance to ratify it. the next Israeli premier (Ariel S.) doesn't seem to be a big friend of win-win peace)? What about civil rights of Palestinians in the state of Israel?

	26-04-2002 22:18									#9
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blah blah Ecthelion. "Palestinians" in the state of Israel have all rights.

	26-04-2002 22:19									#10
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Do those Israeli citizens with Palestinian heritage have the same rights as Jews? Do Jews not get preferred here or there?

	26-04-2002 22:23									#11
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quote: "Security sources inside Israel say..."

Shocker. I mean, I'm stunned. Israeli security officials think the Pals are up to no good? Wow.

Lefty. Good point.

-Arrian

	26-04-2002 22:26									#12
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Please no tongues and nmo laughing smilies on these threads, I find the issue too important and I mean that. It's a pity that right now we only have non-Israelis here at this moment, critical ones. I'd rather discuss issues then collectively ridicule or flame a country. That's os newsmax, so 'social rules for teenage groups'

	26-04-2002 22:32									#13
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Do those Israeli citizens with Palestinian heritage have the same rights as Jews? Do Jews not get preferred here or there?

not by law.

discrimination exists in the private sector for example. It has nothing to do with government policy.

	26-04-2002 22:33									#14
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Another potential explanation: Israel killed so many people in Jenin that they had to delay the UN long enough for Israel to work up this story to give them some "plausible deniability" when the mass graves start getting uncovered.

Of course, Israel could be telling the truth, but at this point, who believes anything either of the two sides tells them?

	26-04-2002 22:33									#15
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That reminds me of a line from M.A.S.H., where somebody asks Hawkeye how he can make jokes in the middle of a war. Hawkeye responds that he can either laugh or cry, and he choses laugh.

Most of the time, I take the ME stuff seriously. But Siro's post is hard to take seriously. Hell, it could even be true, but his post provides no links and the allegations are made by unnamed "security sources." So I chose to be flippant. Sorry to have offended your sensibilities, Echty. Oops, did I use a smiley? Sorry about that Oh, damn, did it again. Oh, hell...

-Arrian

	26-04-2002 22:35									#16
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nah... thanks for the quote, I can need it in the German Columbine thread

	26-04-2002 22:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Please no tongues and nmo laughing smilies on these threads, I find the issue too important and I mean that. It's a pity that right now we only have non-Israelis here at this moment, critical ones. I'd rather discuss issues then collectively ridicule or flame a country. That's os newsmax, so 'social rules for teenage groups'

This is what you had to say about the Erfurt shooting this morning.

quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
"massacre? of 18 dead 14 are supposed to be teachers and those guys just deserve it " with an evil smilie.




Arre we supposed to take you seriously ?

	26-04-2002 22:37									#18
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Crap, that one's almost a 2002er... where on Earth do you think are your getting your right from to refer to this community as "we"? The qustion is, do WE accept you here? I'm certainly not convinced if I should

Besides, that's another issue, because it has happened and cannot be turned. We're talking about a living conflict here, and I'm certain there's a responsibility in each of us to 1. understand it properly, 2. don't fall to propaganda and 3. shut up if we are damn newbies

	26-04-2002 22:39									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Crap, that one's almost a 2002er... where on Earth do you think are your getting your right from to refer to this community as "we"? The qustion is, do WE accept you here? I'm certainly not convinced if I should Besides, that's another issue, because it has happened and cannot be turned. We're talking about a living conflict here, and I'm certain there's a responsibility in each of us to 1. understand it properly, 2. don't fall to propaganda and 3. shut up if we are damn newbies

Care to answer the question ?

	26-04-2002 22:39									#20
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no.

	26-04-2002 22:40									#21
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Don't listen to him, Richelieu. He's just cranky after getting so effectively shot down.

	26-04-2002 22:42									#22
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Do you think a LOL smiley makes for a good argument? That'd be reason enough to sen you into the infamous Dornan Corner. Where is he?

	26-04-2002 22:43									#23
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I can't remember getting shot down. When did I get shot down, please?

	26-04-2002 22:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Do you think a LOL smiley makes for a good argument? That'd be reason enough to sen you into the infamous Dornan Corner. Where is he?

This morning in the "German Columbine" thread i called you an idiot for your comment about the teachers.
Now i'll call you a pathetic idiot for this one.

And here :

Enjoy. I'll leave you alone now. I promise.

	26-04-2002 22:48									#25
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I hope so, because I just can't be arsed to 'discuss' anything with someone who thinks himself a great debater despite 1) absolutely no board expertise and b) an absolute lack of respect for other posters.

	26-04-2002 22:48									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I can't remember getting shot down. When did I get shot down, please?

I see you must have suffered some amnesia in the crash. I'll assemble the forensics for you:

A. You asked people not to use smileys in this thread because it was a SERIOUS THREAD.

B. Richelieu pointed out that you used the evil smiley while making a comment about offing teachers in a SERIOUS THREAD thus shooting you down.

C. You got all snippy about Richelieu being a newby.

I'm sorry to dredge up such painful memories for you, but amnesiacs can never fully heal until they've confronted their trauma.

	26-04-2002 22:50									#27
	A lame attempt to get me all socially encircled and collectively beaten up... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Now actually he didn't particularly shoot me down. He did shoot in my direction, but he failed to hit me.

	26-04-2002 22:58									#28
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Ecthelion, let go of the pain, you'll never heal until you admit that it hurts.


Oops, used a smiley.

	26-04-2002 22:59									#29
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Stop spamming this thread now.

I'm going to translate some articles and post them here. Some of them are unilateral, from a Palestinian point of view. I just want you guys to deal with them, maybe comment on soem statements that are put as if to be just true and so on... hang on a few minutes

	26-04-2002 23:01									#30
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Are Pals manipulating information ? Maybe. But Israel refused any external observer during Jenin battle. I understand that people who have some doubts about this new.

I'm agree that Pals have politicals interest to incrase the number of casualties.

But Israel have political interest too to minimize the casualties.

Who manipulate who ?

Arrghh ... Don't like this situation.