27-04-2002 23:54									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I classify people who deny the Jewish right for an independent state in their homeland as anti semites.

Well they don't, no socially-constructed imagined community has a disembodied right to any chunk of dirt. This hardly makes me an anti-semite, just an anti-nationalist...

	28-04-2002 00:07									#32
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If you value Jewish lives less than others than you're anti-semitic. But then I'm anti-non-American.

	28-04-2002 07:03									#33
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Nope, you're not an anti-Semite Kropotkin. An anti-Semite is simply an anti-Jewish bigot, and that you're definitely not. Anti-Semitism involves resentment/hatred towards Jews, which as far as I know is an alien feeling to to you.

	28-04-2002 07:07									#34
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quote: I classify people who deny the Jewish right for an independent state in their homeland as anti semites.

Woohoo, Eli called me an anti-semite! That must mean I've done something right .

	28-04-2002 07:36									#35
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Chris 62: Bravo! Ned

	28-04-2002 07:41									#36
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Kropotkin, I think a lot of leftists are anti-Israel because it is a very successful economic state compared to their socialist/Islamic neighbors, militarily powerful and willing to use it, and an ally of the hated capitalist power, the United States.

Does this fit your thinking?

Ned

	28-04-2002 07:44									#37
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Actually I think it is because Israel reminds them of a colonizer. If there is one thing Commies hate more than globalization it is colonialism .

	28-04-2002 07:45									#38
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I can't be an anti-semitie, I don't even know what that is.

Besides our PM's last name is Simitis so by definition...

	28-04-2002 07:48									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Of course you're an antisemite, just like me. We're European after all

There's a certain element of truth in that statement.

	28-04-2002 07:49									#40
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TAKE IT!
http://www.petitiononline.com/eusanc/petition.html

	28-04-2002 07:54									#41
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I signed

	28-04-2002 07:55									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Biblical is a damn long time ago.

But not all the Jews were expelled in the diaspora, and many were living in the area even before the Zionist movement began encouraging the Jews to return to Israel. The pre-WWI Zionist movement would not even have been possible if the Turkish Porte, then a decidedly non-western non-european government, hadn't decided to encourage immigration.

	28-04-2002 08:02									#43
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http://www.4fun.gr/MoviePics/MoviePic.asp?MPID=1156

	28-04-2002 08:14									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I signed

I had a feeling you would Imran

Won't do any good though

(BTW I didn't sign)

	28-04-2002 09:04									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I classify people who deny the Jewish right for an independent state in their homeland as anti semites.

Your homeland is Russia.

	28-04-2002 11:29									#46
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Many people claim that liberals are not likely to support Israel in its crisis.

However, I am moderate liberal and support Israel, while sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians who are exploited and abused by Palestinian terrorists.

	28-04-2002 17:19									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Does this fit your thinking?

Nope, not at all

	28-04-2002 17:39									#48
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quote: Chris 62 Any fair minded person need only look at the facts and see who is in the wrong, and it isn't the Jews, they want to make deals and live in peace, but for numerious reasons (politics, religious hatereds, ect) they are constantly attacked and harrassed, and when they fight back, are called facist and other less then flattering things.

Aha. I see your Standpoint is 100% objective somewhere in the middle. And not a tiny bit biased on the Israeli site

	28-04-2002 18:56									#49
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They should really edit the comments on that petition. It looks bad for that sort of petition to have stuff like this written by the signatories:

7352. shady elhoussainy: "i would like to comment saying that what ever the israeli bloob-shed army will never stop the struggle of this nation as it has the strong believe in what they are doing not like others who is trying to build their nation on the corpses of innocent children ,weak women and old men.in.addition i want to remind them that hetler conquered the world,and he thought that he reached the top because of his pride ,but his end was killing him self and the down fall of his empror,but the only good thing he did was burning as much as he could of jewish" (emphasis added)
(http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_p....cgi?eusanc&851)
Very ironic that it should come up in this thread.

	29-04-2002 03:09									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 Aha. I see your Standpoint is 100% objective somewhere in the middle. And not a tiny bit biased on the Israeli site

Not in the slightest.

Don't tell me, you support the people who, this very day, moved house to house in Adora and sprayed machine gun fire into a five year old, killing her, and almost killing her mother and siblings.
You support that?

Your an idiot if that's the case.

Animals is what they are.

	29-04-2002 03:12									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Kropotkin, I think a lot of leftists are anti-Israel because it is a very successful economic state compared to their socialist/Islamic neighbors, militarily powerful and willing to use it, and an ally of the hated capitalist power, the United States. Does this fit your thinking? Ned

I thought Israel was more socualistic than its neighbors

the issue with Israel for some leftists is that they think kIsrael is Imperialist

Jon Miller

	29-04-2002 03:16									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Natan They should really edit the comments on that petition. It looks bad for that sort of petition to have stuff like this written by the signatories: 7352. shady elhoussainy: "i would like to comment saying that what ever the israeli bloob-shed army will never stop the struggle of this nation as it has the strong believe in what they are doing not like others who is trying to build their nation on the corpses of innocent children ,weak women and old men.in.addition i want to remind them that hetler conquered the world,and he thought that he reached the top because of his pride ,but his end was killing him self and the down fall of his empror,but the only good thing he did was burning as much as he could of jewish" (emphasis added) (http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_p....cgi?eusanc&851) Very ironic that it should come up in this thread.

So what Natan? They're enemies not buddies.

In another message in that petition a person keeps saying how much Arabs are like dogs.

It cuts both ways.

	29-04-2002 03:21									#53
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I signed that petition with this comment:

quote: I'm signing because other countries maintaining economic sanctions against each other can only be good for Canada

	29-04-2002 03:25									#54
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Both Israel and its neighbors are getting less socialist every year, but they've still got a lot of government control by American standards. Until a few years ago, the Egyptian government guarenteed every University graduate a government job, and the Israeli government still owns a bunch of comopanies (Bezeq telecommunications, for example) which it has no business running.

	29-04-2002 03:31									#55
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quote: Not in the slightest.

I would call a statement like: " ... who is in the wrong, and it isn't the Jews, ... " a bit one sided

quote: Don't tell me, you support the people who, this very day, moved house to house in Adora and sprayed machine gun fire into a five year old, killing her, and almost killing her mother and siblings. You support that?

No, I dont. I also dont support Israeli Militairy actions.
Im not really Anti-Israel rather centered (at least on European Standards)
And far from being racist.

	29-04-2002 03:31									#56
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There was a interview of a team that trains suicide bombers in a large sunday newspaper.

I'll just give you the jist of it: (the reporter retained his anonymity for obvious reasons but we know he is Lebanese).

Most of the suicide bombers in training were university students studying arts, law etc.

(very quickly and just from the top of my head)

_Why are you doing that?

_I saw my mother humiliated my family humiliated. I was frustrated I wanted to do something. I turned to the Koran and I found peace and all my questions were answered.

I don;t want to kill, although killing is in the equation of what we do, I want ti inflict pain and suffering on the mothers of the Israelis the same way they did with our mothers. To make them lobby their government to end the occupation. I want to show to the world how serious it is to take freedom away from a peoples.



_Don't you feel bad that you will be killing innocent people?

_Do you think that when the Israeli tanks bomb our buildings they care if there are babies inside?




It was a large interview with their selection methods etc.
Very interesting.

	29-04-2002 03:48									#57
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You know, if you talked to Jewish terrorists and war criminals, you'd get the same answers. The "we have to kill theirs because they killed ours" argument has been used by these sort of scum from the days of the Stern Gang in the 40s to Terror Against Terror (TNT) in the 80s and the "Shelhavet Pass [2 year old Jewish girl killed by Arab sniper in Hebron] battalions" a year ago; and from the days of the Arab Liberation Army of 1948 to the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades of 2002. It's despicable when used by Jews; it's despicable when used by Arabs, it's always despicable and in all cases those who advance it have to be fought with every means available to stop their murderous killings.

	29-04-2002 03:52									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Many people claim that liberals are not likely to support Israel in its crisis. However, I am moderate liberal and support Israel, while sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians who are exploited and abused by Palestinian terrorists.

My views, exactly. Ned

	29-04-2002 03:57									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I thought Israel was more socualistic than its neighbors the issue with Israel for some leftists is that they think kIsrael is Imperialist Jon Miller

Jon, If you could, would you expand on this a bit? How is Israel "Imperialist?" Ned

	29-04-2002 05:19									#60
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There's a big difference between being Anti-Semite and Anti-Israel. I don't agree with Israel's policies one bit. And no, I don't think they had a right to take over the Palestinian's land. Land is land. No one has a right to any part of it, really. And I would think the same way if they were Christian, Muslim, Atheist, what have you.

[sarcasm] There should be a Atheist homeland. Ireland seems like a good place. [/sarcasm]