06-05-2002 00:00									#61
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The 24 civs (as it should be), with features, starting with the new eight:

Arabs (Religious, Expansionistic), Saladin, UU is mamluke (replaces knight)

Hebrews (Religious, Commercial), King Soloman, UU is Maccabee (replaces archer)

Ottomans (Militaristic, Industrious), Sulyman, UU is Jannissary

Incas (Religious, Militaristic), ?????, UU ????

Vikings (Commercial, Militaristic), Leif Erikson, UU some kind of naval vessel

Ethiopians (Expansionistic, Commercial), Menelek, UU ????

Mongols (Expansionistic, Militaristic), Gengis, UU ????

Spanish (Militarsitic, Industrial), Isabella, UU is Inquisidor (kills foreign nationals in conquered cities)

As for remaining Civs, they only one I'd change really is France:
French (Whiny, Cheese loving), Maginot, UU is White Flag (replaces ALL military units)

	06-05-2002 00:28									#62
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here is the list I made in the civs forum, it assumes Spain a mediterrnean position, and I think it is fairly accurate, in that it takes into account keeping cultural groups in balance, and so forth.
1. Spain (mediterranean)
2. Vikings (europe)
3. Mongols (asia)
4. Inca (america)
5. Carthage (mediterranean)
6. Celts (europe)
-------------------
The last two spots are much more up in the air. The likely civs are
Korea (asia)
Turks or Arabs (Middle-east)
Hebrews (middle-east)
Ethiopians or Mali (Middle-East)

	06-05-2002 12:44									#63
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I can't speak for the rest of the suggested leaders, but Leif Erikson should definately not be a viking leader - no more than Cook should be the English leader or Columbus the Spanish (ok, I know Columbus wasn't Spanish).

The point is that Leif Erikson was never a king or ruler at all. He was the most famous viking explorer though.

The correct viking leader is of course the danish king Knud (or Canute). Check this link for the reason: http://viking.no/e/people/e-knud.htm

	06-05-2002 13:31									#64
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My list would be

celts(euro)
vikings(euro)
spanish(euro)
arabs(mideast)
turks(can be medit or mideast,includes both types of architecture and culture)
incas(american)
mongols(asian)

I dont think koreans will be in since they dont have a significant effect on the history of civilization.

	06-05-2002 14:43									#65
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the Dutch, of course

	06-05-2002 16:20									#66
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I would like to see:
The Spanish (Religious, Militaristic)
The Scandinavians (Industrious, Militaristic)
The Arabs (Religious, Militaristic)
The Celts (Industrious, Religious)
Ethiopia (all of "Black Africa" NOT just Abyssinia) (Religious, Expansionist)
The Scotch (Scientific, Militaristic)
The Hittites (Industrious,. Commercial)
The Jews (Religious, Scientific)

We will probably see:

The Spanish
The Vikings
The Mongols
The Arabs
The Incas
The Celts
The Carthaginians
The Polynesians

Most popular (according to a poll on Civfanatics forum):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...80&pagenumber=4

The Spanish
The Scandinavians
The Mongols
The Celts
The Phoenician or the Carthaginians
The Arabs
The Scotch
The Turks

	07-05-2002 00:16									#67
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With regards to UU's... I would like to see some more interesting UU's. All of the others are just suped-up versions of some other unit. Here's some ideas.

Americans:
Pioneer - settler with defense and (maybe?) 2 MP or something.

Vikings:
Longship - this unit is a replacement for the Galley and can go into Sea squares without sinking giving the Vikings an added boost on island maps in exploration and (more importantly) colonization.

Some sort of special Great Leader for another civilization.

All of these things would have very different effects.

	07-05-2002 01:29									#68
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I only said "Israeli" because it is more interesting from a UU and leader personality standpoint. Given, Hebrew culture is and was great, but the modern Israeli state has a personality (and a military) all it's own.

I like the idea of Byzantium as well, but only if they can make them significantly different than the Romans.

What about the Franks under Charlemagne? They are significantly different from the French and Romans and Germans; they simply occupied the same spaces at a different time.

I'm not feeling much support for a Canadian civ here guys...

	07-05-2002 02:10									#69
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quote: Originally posted by ScreamingViking I'm not feeling much support for a Canadian civ here guys...

Canadian Civ:


but seriously, would be alright. I'm all for inclusion of the minor tribes.

	07-05-2002 06:21									#70
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Yeah, well a "minor tribe" invaded as far south as Virginia in 1812, razing the original White House on their way down...

	07-05-2002 06:45									#71
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quote: Originally posted by ScreamingViking Yeah, well a "minor tribe" invaded as far south as Virginia in 1812, razing the original White House on their way down...

payback's a b*tch Kanada

	07-05-2002 07:29									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Noyus I dont think koreans will be in since they dont have a significant effect on the history of civilization.

You are incorrect. The Koreans seeded the foundation of Japanese civilization. They also brought down the Sui Dynasty when they defeated a million Chinese forces, thus bringing the Tang Dynasty into power. In addition, they have played a critical role in East Asian geo-politics, etc, etc.

I guess this all depends on what you consider "civilization". If you're talking about Western civilization, which I am guessing you are, then no the Koreans did not have much impact on it. But if you consider Asia a part of your definition of "civilization", then the answer is yes.

And may I ask what "significant effect" did the Inca exactly have on the "history of civilization"?

	07-05-2002 07:31									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Calgacus NM Most popular (according to a poll on Civfanatics forum): The Scotch

Yes, and you can also add the Bourbon and the Brandy, too.

	07-05-2002 07:38									#74
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quote: Originally posted by SeferKoheleth As for remaining Civs, they only one I'd change really is France: French (Whiny, Cheese loving), Maginot, UU is White Flag (replaces ALL military units)

LOL Make their workers all wear berets.

	07-05-2002 07:40									#75
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quote: Originally posted by ScreamingViking Yeah, well a "minor tribe" invaded as far south as Virginia in 1812, razing the original White House on their way down...

Back in those days, Canada was still a part of the British Empire. Really, the British burned the White House. The Canadians were busy inventing Hockey, Flannel, and the Mullet.

	07-05-2002 07:51									#76
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quote: Originally posted by ScreamingViking Yeah, well a "minor tribe" invaded as far south as Virginia in 1812, razing the original White House on their way down...

And that's your biggest claim of military success? A "minor tribe" beat another "minor tribe". Do you honestly believe it could happen again?

Be proud of Normandy, not the War of 1812.

	07-05-2002 08:42									#77
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Here's my guess, reasons, UU and leader


Spaniards
Given how much of the world they controlled at one time, they should have been in the original set. Also taps into the large Spanish market.
UU: conquistador, probably similar to a rider with 4-4-3. It should be a mounted unit since that was how the Spaniards took the New World.
Leader: Isabella

Mongols
They conquored most of Asia and they're a fan favourite.
UU: Mounted archer, possibly an improved horseman with a 3-2-3
Leader: Ghenghis Khan

Arabs
Yes, it crowds the Mediterrain, but the Arabs were the most significant civilization from 800-1500 AD.
UU: Camel rider, another 4-4-2
Leader: Saladin

Vikings
The Vikings did not have much of a civilization, but this is another fan favourite
UU: long boat - upgraded galley with +1 movement and capable of sailing in seas without being lost.
Leader: Canute

Celts
An insignificant civilization, but a big fan favourite.
UU: Woad warrior - upgraded warrior 2-1-1
Leader: Boudicca

Carthagians
This adds another civ to Africa.
UU - Elephant archers - 3-3-2
Leader: Hannibal

Incas
Another civ for Americas
UU: llama calvarly. Probably upgraded warrior type
Leader: Pachucutec

As for the number eight civ, I have no idea. The Koreans are a big possibility given the market in South Korea. Ethiopians would balance out Africa. It's a toss up.

	07-05-2002 20:44									#78
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um..many of your UUs add 2-3 points to a/d/m. Isn't that a bit too much (3/2/3 improved horseman???)

	07-05-2002 20:50									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Mongols They conquored most of Asia and they're a fan favourite. UU: Mounted archer, possibly an improved horseman with a 3-2-3 Leader: Ghenghis Khan

to me this would make the iriqoius irrelevant (no jokes please) since your mongol uu is the same with an extra movement and defense. Not sure what else it could be. perhaps a knight with an extra movement point. would be powerful

	08-05-2002 01:32									#80
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Love the sig, asleepathewheel.

	08-05-2002 04:36									#81
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quote: Originally posted by ScreamingViking Yeah, well a "minor tribe" invaded as far south as Virginia in 1812, razing the original White House on their way down...

Other then being a base for the British Royal Marines Canada had very little to do with that raid. Plus it was a brief forey from the sea not an invasion by land; the British were quickly forced to flee.
It should also be pointed out that the British raid was retaliation for the Americans burning several Canadian cities including Ottawa.

	08-05-2002 05:17									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Hoot Love the sig, asleepathewheel.

thanks hoot. good music.

	08-05-2002 06:29									#83
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ScreamingViking: yea, go Byzantines! LOL.

Well, there are people who don't even think America should have been a civ. Canada? Just because they advanced beyond the US border (while the United State's independence and military was still young, AND with the British at the same time, mind you) at one time doesn't automatically mean they deserve a spot in the game. Seriously though, it would make more sense just to add Toronto and Calgary and the like to the British city list.

I joke about adding the Ukraine, but I'd say even they are a more deserving civ than Canada. (and again, I'd just as soon see Kiev and the like in Russia's city-list)

Still though. For Byzantium! :P

Calgacus: Erm...people from Scotland are "Scottish". *forces himself to use such a low-brow term* "Scotch" is a drink. Sides, wouldn't they be included with the Celts?

	08-05-2002 06:47									#84
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Some Straight and Oddball picks
1. Canadians (high interest on certain forums so perhaps some marketing appeal - and yes I agree 1812 was largely British, Canadians won their spurs in WWI and WW2 IMHO) UU Corvette - leader Sir John A (or you know who). (Anybody but Trudeau).
2. Masai - (Or perhaps Nubians or Mandinka or other group north of the Zulu to fill up Africa) - Biggest problem is UU, which is likely to be a unit similar to Zulu. Oooh. What about UU She unit! with capital King Solomon's Mines. Or maybe Madagascar with Queen Ranavalona (sorry about the spelling) as leader.
3. Inca - fills up South America. UU worker that could irrigate hills would be cool.
4. Mongols (fan favourite and major conquerors, although thier contributions to civilization may not have been as firmly fixed as the Greeks)
5. Khmer - Ancient civ, fills in SouthEast Asia. Capital Angkor Wat. UU ? Possible Siam/Thai (go Chiangmai!). UU Hmmm. Tempted to say another elephant warrior - and add coconut to trade..
6. Aboriginal Australians - Sorry I'm ignorant as to their real names. That's probably like calling an an Inu an Eskimo when they clearly don't play football (Go Esks!).
7. Koreans - (Again, some market appeal, although to some extent I think the Japanese may have some overlap - as pointed out earlier on the forum).
8. Crete - (Recognizable) Capital Knossos (?), UU Minotaur warriors, Leader Croessus