05-05-2002 01:40									#31
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quote: I suppose giving him a stern talking to and a few disapproving looks would have sufficed as punishment.

Yeah, and when Americans execute a person he's brought to a stage with dancing girls and pyrotechnics and wild animals and TV cameras on the roll and the executor, who is stereotypical muscle-bound half-naked guy with face covered, who takes his giant bloody axe and HACKS THE MAN UNTIL HE'S DEAD AND THEN RIPS HIS BODY PARTS OFF AND TOSSES THEM TO CROWD TO TEAR APART AND EVERYBODY CHEERS AND DANCES MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Krhm.

	05-05-2002 01:48									#32
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Kudos to Europe.



Showing once again that they're better people than we are . . . now.

	05-05-2002 02:28									#33
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quote: He violated the Geneva Convention.

So? Violating international law doesn't give you the right to try a citizen of another country in either your own tribunal or an international one. Wanna put sanctions on the nation? Go ahead, but that's about it.

	05-05-2002 02:31									#35
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd So? Violating international law doesn't give you the right to try a citizen of another country in either your own tribunal or an international one.

You asked what law Hitler violated, did you not? What's with the attitude?

	05-05-2002 02:37									#36
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quote: I wouldn't say so. The difference between Hitler and Truman is motive. Truman authorized the bombingof Hiroshima nd Nagasaki to end a war and save hundreds of thousands of lives.

Further examples that the victors write the laws .

	05-05-2002 02:51									#37
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Imran's becoming more and more of a leftie.

	05-05-2002 02:55									#38
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I'm a Libertarian.. I'm neither right nor left .

I just know IR .

	05-05-2002 03:33									#39
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Yet another thread brought to you by Campbell's Condensed Arguments.

It'd be nice to see someone with some new arguments in one of these, but I'm not expecting it.

I just find it amusing that people who refer to the death penalty as barbaric are quite happy to bring up that whole prison-rapist thing. Why not just bring back torture?

Wraith
"Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master."
-- Emo Philips

	05-05-2002 03:54									#40
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I oppose the death penalty completely -- whether you murdered one person, or you murdered 5,000 people, you should automatically get life sentence with NO possibility of parole or probation.

The reasons I oppose it (includes a couple already discussed):

1) past studies have shown that the death penalty is racist in United States

2) past studies have shown that in some areas, there is a higher rate of violent crimes committed where the death penalty is legal

3) there is a likliehood that there are innocent people who were falsely convicted, and are currently on death row --- with a life sentence, if they are proven to be falsely convicted, they can be freed --- executed people can not

United States seems to be out of step with the rest of the Western world -- but what else is new, right??


As for the disgusting joke about subjecting criminals to gang rape --- I saw nothing to laugh about.

	05-05-2002 04:23									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Was her name Tracy?

Sarah. Ww used to say "Sawah". Great body, short thick haircut. And a secretary. Great letters and diction. Love that English accent!!

	05-05-2002 05:11									#42
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quote: You asked what law Hitler violated, did you not? What's with the attitude?

I meant what law did he break that he could be prosecuted under.

quote: As for the disgusting joke about subjecting criminals to gang rape --- I saw nothing to laugh about.

Actually I see a certain hilarious irony to child molesters and sex offenders getting some of their own back.

	05-05-2002 05:23									#43
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Actually I think it is a bad idea to have rape allowed in prison. it is a breakdown of discipline.


If we were to sanction such behavior (and we shouldn't) than the state should adminsiter it...

	05-05-2002 06:00									#44
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Oh I agree, it's bad - BUT in another sense I find it fitting

	05-05-2002 07:17									#45
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haha "fitting"!

	05-05-2002 07:22									#46
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Look at few statistics. .

I like a man who follows his own advice...

	05-05-2002 09:04									#47
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Truman authorized the bombingof Hiroshima nd Nagasaki to end a war and save hundreds of thousands of lives. Granted his actions killed thousands, but they ultimately saved more than they killed. The Japanese government is just as guilty for those Japanese lives as Truman. They engaged in an aggressive war against the U.S., and were willing to fight to the last to prevent defeat.

Utter malarkey.

1) Truman used the A-Bombs to scare Stalin and to thwart a Soviet invasion of Japan. He wrote as much in his diaries and letters to his wife.
2) The Japanese government had made moves to surrender, their only stipulation being a guarantee of that Hirohito would not be held accountable for any war crimes and could retain his position as emperor. U.S. military intelligence believed promising Hirohito's sanctity would be enough to get the Japanese to surrender, and told Truman as such. After the surrender, we kept Hirohito in his place. We couldn't just promise that before? No, because then Truman wouldn't have been able to scare Crazy Joe with the bombs.
3) Truman's estimates of casualties for an invasion changed drastically over time, going up and up and up as he sought to justify the bombings with the public. Everytime the media published photos of the devastation, Truman revised the number upwards again.
4) Nearly all of Truman's top military staff, including Eisenhower, strongly told him he shouldn't use the bombs and were adamantly against their use. Wouldn't they be the best judges of such things?

	05-05-2002 09:11									#48
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I meant what law did he break that he could be prosecuted under. Actually I see a certain hilarious irony to child molesters and sex offenders getting some of their own back.

Didn't your mother ever taught you that two wrongs do not make a right??


The reason why I am not in the mood to laugh at this, is I read an article a couple of weeks ago, about a gay inmate in Texas, where he was repeatedly raped and sexually assualted by other inmates for about a year, IIRC.

When he reported the attacks to prison authorities, the officers shrugged it off, and said, something like: "You're a fag -- it's what you want, isn't it?"

I was fuming when I came across that article. Fortunately for the victim, he was relocated, and now a civil rights organization is organizing a case on his behalf to sue for damages.

	05-05-2002 09:19									#49
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There was a worse incident in Texas wherein a gay man was convicted of murder, and the prosecutor asked the jury to give him the death penalty--not because of how awful his crime was, or anything like that--but just because life in prison would be *pleasurable* for him because he was gay (hint, hint, he'd like getting anally raped every night, wouldn't he?)

Thankfully the sentence was overturned (But they did give it to him) and he was either released or getting a new trial, don't recall which. But certainly quite frightening.

	05-05-2002 14:19									#50
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The death penalty is eminently suitable in some circumstances - Westley Allan Dodd, John Wayne Gacey, Ted Bundy, Andrei Chikatilo and their ilk; they did not and do not merit humane confinement for several decades.

	06-05-2002 06:45									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Simon Darkshade The death penalty is eminently suitable in some circumstances - Westley Allan Dodd, John Wayne Gacey, Ted Bundy, Andrei Chikatilo and their ilk; they did not and do not merit humane confinement for several decades.

If we can reform the prison system by denying all felon inmates any form of leisure entertainment other than reading or card games, then there is nothing luxurious about life imprisonment with no chance for parole or probation.

	06-05-2002 10:35									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun If we can reform the prison system by denying all felon inmates any form of leisure entertainment other than reading or card games, then there is nothing luxurious about life imprisonment with no chance for parole or probation.

Card Games?! Reading!?! Why give them that much?
It doesn't matter that they may sit back with a bare minimum of leisure entertainment.

Those convicted and executed criminals I named were examples of individuals who have committed the most horrific and heinous crimes, and allowing them to live allowed them to continue with their fantasies and despicable thoughts. The world was far better off without them, and the bullet in the back of Chikatilo's head did not cost an awful lot.
There are some crimes so reprehensible that life is forfeited for them, in order to wipe the filth off the face of the earth.

If they are given life, they would probably end up getting Dahmered...

	06-05-2002 10:39									#53
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quote: Originally posted by GP Actually I think it is a bad idea to have rape allowed in prison. it is a breakdown of discipline. If we were to sanction such behavior (and we shouldn't) than the state should adminsiter it...

I agree

Jon Miller

	06-05-2002 11:15									#54
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Simon --- life imprisonment with no chance of parole or probation would prevent them from ever committing crimes again in society.

	06-05-2002 11:30									#55
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but I would say, give me liberty or death

so no liberty, -:> death

Jon Miller

	06-05-2002 11:31									#56
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note, I might have liberty in prison (in which case I would not choose death)

Jon Miller

	06-05-2002 12:31									#57
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Oh, wait is this another thread about how the Eurocoms think we're a buncha hard-assed he-men? Who cares. What is this council anyway?

Last edited by TCO on 06-05-2002 at 12:56

	06-05-2002 12:37									#58
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hmmm, restraining myself (That would definitely be an own goal at Counterglow)

Jon Miller

	06-05-2002 16:45									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Were the death penalty: 1) 100% accurate (no innocents executed) 2) Not racist 3) an actual deterrent to crime 4) Only used on those beyond hope of rehabiliation I would support it. It's none of those things, nor ever can be, so away with it.

what if a guy is a mass murderer, confesses a crime, is caught on the CCTV camera while doings so or 1 zillion people saw him in daylight. so again, he/she confesses and laughs in judge's face? i reckon he should be put to sleep. forever.

abolishment of the death penalty is the stupidest thing CoE has on its agenda. racist argument perhaps applies in texas and bible belt, but hardly here

	06-05-2002 16:46									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Simon --- life imprisonment with no chance of parole or probation would prevent them from ever committing crimes again in society.

until there is a major upheaval in the society. ask the threadstarter about all the lunatics and convicts that were let free and armed at the beginning of the yugoslav civil war. on both sides.