04-05-2002 16:50									#1
	Council of Europe agrees to abolish barrbaric punishment Inflate your Upload Space

aka.. death penality, even in the times of war.

http://press.coe.int/cp/2002/240a(2002).htm

as opposed to the barrbarians accross the big pond

This is official press release, and that is how the politicians referred to it, not just me

quote: Vilnius, 03.05.2002 - The Ministers for Foreign Affairs and Representatives of 36 member states (*) of the Council of Europe, present in Vilnius on the occasion of the 110th session of the Organisation's Committee of Ministers, today signed Protocol No. 13 to the European Convention on Human Rights, concerning the abolition of the death penalty in all circumstances. With Protocol No. 6, and a moratorium in the countries that have not yet ratified it, the 44 Council of Europe member states already constituted a death-penalty-free zone in peacetime. Protocol No. 13 provides the Organisation with an instrument that prohibits capital punishment, whatever the circumstances. "The Council of Europe was already proud to have banished the death penalty in peacetime on a continent where more than 800 million people live. With Protocol No. 13, it opens the way to abolishing this barbaric punishment in all circumstances. We hope that this will be a decisive step towards a universal abolition of the death penalty and we shall spare no effort in achieving this," declared Walter Schwimmer, Secretary General of the 44-nation Organisation. The Protocol will enter into force with 10 ratifications. The text and further information available at http://conventions.coe.int ---------- (*) 36 signatory States : Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Moldova, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia", Ukraine and the United Kingdom. Ireland, Malta and Switzerland signed and ratified this Protocol.

to spare you going to the link

	04-05-2002 16:52									#2
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Oh yes, I heard about this. The Daily Mail in Britain ran the story under the title "Europe takes away our right to bring back the death penalty".

	04-05-2002 16:57									#3
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Really, do you expect anything other from those f*ckwits the Daily Mail? Nice move! About time they ended conscription too.

	04-05-2002 16:58									#4
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Well our friends across the pond are not the only barbarrians around. British tabloids surely cannot be considered to be civilised

	04-05-2002 17:00									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Really, do you expect anything other from those f*ckwits the Daily Mail? Nice move! About time they ended conscription too.

Of course I didn't expect any better. I just thought it'd be humourous to point it out.

	04-05-2002 17:03									#6
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Of course not OFITG

The Daily Mail...hmmm, I've always been bemused why people read that tat, same with any of the tabloids to be honest with you.

	04-05-2002 17:05									#7
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I was actually flicking through it in the college library, looking for the puzzle pages when I happened upon this story. It's not like I buy it or anything.

	04-05-2002 17:14									#8
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yes you Daily mail reader

excuses excuses

	04-05-2002 17:15									#9
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Lies, lies, lies!!!!

	04-05-2002 17:21									#10
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I dunno, I quite like The Mirror. Knee-jerk old labour is as good a stance as any.

	04-05-2002 17:27									#11
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You never struck me as a very 'Daily Mail' person Snapcase

	04-05-2002 18:20									#12
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It's a really good way to induce vomiting, though!

	04-05-2002 21:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Of course not OFITG The Daily Mail...hmmm, I've always been bemused why people read that tat, same with any of the tabloids to be honest with you.

The Times - Read by people who run the country.
The Guardian - Read by people who think that they should run the country.
Daily Mail - Read by people who think the country should be run how it used to be
The Telegraph - Read by people who think it still is.
Morning Star - Read by people who think no-one should own the country.
Financial Times - Read by the people that do.
The Sun - Read by people who don't care who runs the country as long as they have nice tits.

	04-05-2002 21:28									#14
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There was a pretty conservative paper that I read when I was hanging out with my friend, the Essex girl. Which one could it have been?

	04-05-2002 21:30									#15
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The Washington Post.

	04-05-2002 22:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GP There was a pretty conservative paper that I read when I was hanging out with my friend, the Essex girl. Which one could it have been?

If it was a national paper (and British), it was either the Daily mail or Daily Telegraph.

	04-05-2002 22:29									#17
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Proves to me that Europeans are as out of touch with reality as I always thought. What would they have done to that kid in Erfurt? I suppose giving him a stern talking to and a few disapproving looks would have sufficed as punishment.

	04-05-2002 22:29									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Of course not OFITG The Daily Mail...hmmm, I've always been bemused why people read that tat, same with any of the tabloids to be honest with you.

If it weren't for the Sports section, I sincerely hope that all the people I see reading the New York Post on the subways wouldn't be. Yech.

	04-05-2002 22:34									#19
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Proves to me that Europeans are as out of touch with reality as I always thought. What would they have done to that kid in Erfurt? I suppose giving him a stern talking to and a few disapproving looks would have sufficed as punishment.

I'm no expert on German law, but he probably would have been sent to prison with a bunch of older mass murders who would have bum-raped him day and night for the duration of his stay. A punishment far worse than death, I'm sure you would agree.

	04-05-2002 22:40									#20
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Nationalist: Whether you realize it or not, killing that boy won't bring back any of the people he killed. It will only make us as bad as him.

As Paul said, it's not as if Prison is a walk in the park. (Unless a family member has political pull anyway )

	04-05-2002 22:46									#21
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Were the death penalty:

1) 100% accurate (no innocents executed)
2) Not racist
3) an actual deterrent to crime
4) Only used on those beyond hope of rehabiliation

I would support it. It's none of those things, nor ever can be, so away with it.

	04-05-2002 22:57									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GP The Essex girl.

Was her name Tracy?

	04-05-2002 23:07									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Mikhail Nationalist: Whether you realize it or not, killing that boy won't bring back any of the people he killed. It will only make us as bad as him. As Paul said, it's not as if Prison is a walk in the park. (Unless a family member has political pull anyway )

No, it wouldn't bring them back. But executing a killer does not make a society as bad as the murdering individual. Execution is the just answer to mass murder. This person has proven that he cannot live within the limits of society, therefore he should be removed. The just way to deal with a criminal that has that much blood on his hands is death. If we would have captured Hitler after WWII, do you think that we should have given him life in prison? Sometimes execution is the only answer.

	04-05-2002 23:58									#24
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What legal crime did Hitler commit?

	05-05-2002 00:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd What legal crime did Hitler commit?

He violated the Geneva Convention.

	05-05-2002 00:25									#26
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Orchastrating Mass Murder is a crime.

	05-05-2002 00:26									#27
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Were "Bomber" Harris and Harry Truman criminals then?

	05-05-2002 01:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Were the death penalty: 1) 100% accurate (no innocents executed) 2) Not racist 3) an actual deterrent to crime 4) Only used on those beyond hope of rehabiliation I would support it. It's none of those things, nor ever can be, so away with it.

	05-05-2002 01:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Were "Bomber" Harris and Harry Truman criminals then?

I wouldn't say so. The difference between Hitler and Truman is motive. Truman authorized the bombingof Hiroshima nd Nagasaki to end a war and save hundreds of thousands of lives. Granted his actions killed thousands, but they ultimately saved more than they killed. The Japanese government is just as guilty for those Japanese lives as Truman. They engaged in an aggressive war against the U.S., and were willing to fight to the last to prevent defeat. This will forced drastic measures to end the war. In a sense, the bombings were acts of self defense. Truman was protecting Americans.

Hitler killed people for political gain. The Night of the Long Knives, where Hitler had his SS kill thousands of SA officials, was murder.
I don't think that I have to explain the evil involved in the Holocaust.

	05-05-2002 01:36									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Were the death penalty: 1) 100% accurate (no innocents executed) 2) Not racist 3) an actual deterrent to crime 4) Only used on those beyond hope of rehabiliation I would support it. It's none of those things, nor ever can be, so away with it.

1. Modern methods improve on the accuracy all the time. Few innocent people are executed. However, I agree that this is the biggest problem with capital punishment. That is why we have a lengthy appeals process to ensure that people aren't wrongly executed.

2. Most evidence points to the death penalty not being racist. Look at few statistics.

3. Death penalty isn't about deterrance. It is about punishment and justice. The laws are there to deter the crime.

4. People who have commited crimes heinous enough to warrant the death penalty don't deserve a second chance. Their victims won't get one.