06-05-2002 22:06									#1
	Shortest PBEM in history Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I would like to announce perhaps the shortest PBEM ever. It was between C-Matrix and myself lasting until turn 10 Matrix came out the victor in this friend game. After looking at the save he sent me, he must have had a lucky streak with ruins. I saw 2 knights and a samari. Shameful, only 10 turns.

	06-05-2002 22:09									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You resigned .

Now this is what challenges mean .

	07-05-2002 06:02									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I had no choice. He took all my cities

	07-05-2002 10:25									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Umm, now that's good .

	07-05-2002 16:42									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Nimrod,

Thats a tough break, "been there,done that", thats kinda why I shy away from wonders, for the luck of the draw, this time it was REAL quick, a knight and 3 samaurai is just too hard to defend within 10 turns. On other hand congrats to the blessed C-Matrix, (dont wanna run up against you!)

Hmm, guess that may make some folks RETHINK the quick spread 'n sprawl settler factory that is often seen?

At any rate, tough break!

Troll

	11-05-2002 05:27									#6
	IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT DO YOU HAVE, IT MATTERS HOW DO YOU USE IT!!! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Nimrod,
You asked me before the start of this game >> "How would you rate your self as a player?" (Refer my answer)

I will repeat my self again because I feel there should be some explanation here.

The General philosophy in CTP has Three Basic Origins.(I call them >>The Triple "A")

1/ "The Art of Creation" >> it comes from GOD and I consider my self to be almost like HIM .

2/ "The Art of Destruction" >> it comes from the DEVIL and I am better then him because, HE is already my student:-)

3/ "The Art of Existence" >> it comes from The TIME, which binds the first two together to Perfection, so >>> it is The Master of the Universe, and the first two as me will be his students FOREVER !!!


This game was just a creation of The Evil Genius assisted by the Luck.

	11-05-2002 05:39									#7
	Re: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT DO YOU HAVE, IT MATTERS HOW DO YOU USE IT!!! Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by C-MATRIX Nimrod, You asked me before the start of this game >> "How would you rate your self as a player?" (Refer my answer) I will repeat my self again because I feel there should be some explanation here. The General philosophy in CTP has Three Basic Origins.(I call them >>The Triple "A") 1/ "The Art of Creation" >> it comes from GOD and I consider my self to be almost like HIM . 2/ "The Art of Destruction" >> it comes from the DEVIL and I am better then him because, HE is already my student:-) 3/ "The Art of Existence" >> it comes from The TIME, which binds the first two together to Perfection, so >>> it is The Master of the Universe, and the first two as me will be his students FOREVER !!! This game was just a creation of The Evil Genius assisted by the Luck.

The difference between Heaven and Hell is 18 inches, the difference between Heart Knowledge of Jesus Christ and Head knowledge of the Devil.

I congratulate you on your Victory C-Matrix, but you be way off on your synopsis of how you accrued your wealth of Victory!

Troll

	11-05-2002 06:35									#8
	O TEMPORA, O MORES! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

God created the people and they created the Evil!

Troll,

When I came to Apolyton I did that, because I hoped I could find a teacher to help me build better Civilization. I still hope.

But all I see are people fighting to win and build their civilization to destroy the others.
I rarely did that before, because this only degrades my own civilization.

Why nobody here is interested in the original purpose of the game, the result of which is measured with percentages? I guess because is much easier to destroy then to build.

Perhaps we can turn back and have games without taking any others cities but just improve our own civilizations.

If we don't change our nature we are doomed to play only "Apocalypse Now"!

I personally prefer the other style, which is based on "The Art of Creation"

Last edited by C-MATRIX on 11-05-2002 at 10:14

	11-05-2002 10:02									#9
	Re: O TEMPORA, O MORES! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by C-MATRIX God created the people and they created the Evil! Troll, When I came to Apolyton I did that, because I hoped I could find a teacher to help me build better Civilization. I still hope. But all I see are people fighting to win and build their civilization to destroy the others. I really did that before, because this only degrades my own civilization. Why nobody here is interested in the original purpose of the game, the result of which is measured with percentages? I guess because is much easier to destroy then to build. Perhaps we can turn back and have games without taking any others cities but just improve our own civilizations. If we don't change our nature we are doomed to play only "Apocalypse Now"! I personally prefer the other style, which is based on "The Art of Creation"

I really enjoy long games, Gigantic Land Maps and see how Big and Civilizized My Kingdom can become, peaceably.

Unfortunately I usually get this response, "ifin you want to play peacefully, play SIM City!

But I hold out hope that perhaps i can find someone out there who would like to play this game more on the lines of the R/W.."Real World" where they have strifes and wars and rumours of wars, we dont have an Armegeddon-Summit, Extinction maker of a game

Have a great evening and perhaps we, you and I can someday play one another that way!

But I shall add this, without getting into trouble for taking this off-topic, too many lower-life, Lyieng cheaters SAY they wont pillage,attack or tresspass, but lie and attack you for no reason. Hard to find honor within a den of thieves I reckon?

Yours In Civin

Troll

	11-05-2002 16:25									#10
	Tired of ads?

I'm starting to feel sick .

One of my odd and stupid beliefs is that being a good Civ player is talent. That is, you can't really master the game unless you're talented in strategy gaming. I know many who would disagree with me, but what the.... all in all, everyone will agree that Civ requires a certain group of skills.

	11-05-2002 18:55									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Solver I'm starting to feel sick . One of my odd and stupid beliefs is that being a good Civ player is talent. That is, you can't really master the game unless you're talented in strategy gaming. I know many who would disagree with me, but what the.... all in all, everyone will agree that Civ requires a certain group of skills.

Solver
I am not what one would call an "educated sophisticant" but rather more from the other education system, School of Hard Knocks, located within most walks of life.

That being said, and too keep this response on thread topic I would add that this game takes an enormous amount of ability to process facts and figures,strategies and calculations coupled with vastly changing amounts of variables. Take for instance Nimrod, I heard hes a good solid player, perhaps even talented, the point being, C-Matrix caught the winds of blessed fortune and to paraphrase HIS response, he took the reigns of the prevailing evil forces, amassed an early band of renegades and roustabouts and wiped this mother earth of any remnants of Nimrod!
How could he do such a thing?

What possessed this Killer and Dominator of the Civ Universe to unclip the restraints governing his BigDawg of Military Might upon an-as-yet-budding civilization, we could ponder and ponder, but it boils down to his response, he has tasted the sting of a mighty whip himself, FIRSTHAND to know how successful this can be, now the Tales of lore are being spun, for in no time he will have overrun Nimrod's Civ with a multitude of Calvary and Cannons ..........
I should say that he may not have been as fortunate ifin Nimrod was a bit more settled in, thus this event, THis Day In History, would not have taken place!

Solver, It is up to the like of you, to be a governing body and seek out the likes of C-Matrix, CRUSH HIM!!!!!!!! TEACH HIM THE PENALTY FOR ATTROCITIES OF WAR!!


Or perhaps we could agree that Nimrod was just simply outclassed??

And thats my story..and Im sticking to it!

Troll

	19-05-2002 23:17									#12
	Suffering from ads?

I think it's a record.

The fastest I knew was Deathmatch Modern 1.2.1 that had ended in 11 turns near a couple of years ago and Deathmatch Modern in 17 or 19 turns, the first pbem game ever finished.

Now there are a couple of Happy Killers games that ended in short time but I don't know in which turn.

	20-05-2002 00:10									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Lucky break for C-

Playing without 'huts' will minimize the luck factor to a great extent. I recommend it.

	20-05-2002 04:12									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

This isn't over yet...

	20-05-2002 13:34									#16
	Tired of ads?

Breaking News.......

	20-05-2002 13:43									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

HANG ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KEYGEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he lives!!!!

good to see you buddy!

	20-05-2002 20:13									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Nimrod you were not beaten fairly - I had been secretly moderating another of the C-Matrix games, and the results are extremely damning... He cheats- Magical ability to move in strange directions and open ruins, even if on the strangest of territories - Opening EVERY ruin apart from Barbarian ones - THREE avoided in game I moderated - A Settler moving through uncharted territory - along a river - and then chooses to settle OFF the river on a straight plains square.... why? cos it gave him a two good elephant monopoly- WHICH HE COULD NEVER have known about - and as the game was abruptly ended- OFF moves a Slaver and we all know he knew just where to send it....

C-Matrix we know you are a cheat.... one thing bothers me ...... why?? What was the point- Do you think you would gain the respect of the community by beating better players than you? U only defeated one player...... and that was yourself- what a terrible crying shame.... this community took years to develop based on honesty and friendship - It is gonna take a long time (if ever ) before I for one can accept you as a fellow CTP'er again

	20-05-2002 20:27									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Thank you Gav for making this public.

	20-05-2002 22:25									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Uh oh!

	20-05-2002 23:43									#21
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Nimrod you were not beaten fairly - I had been secretly moderating another of the C-Matrix games, and the results are extremely damning... He cheats- Magical ability to move in strange directions and open ruins, even if on the strangest of territories - Opening EVERY ruin apart from Barbarian ones - THREE avoided in game I moderated - A Settler moving through uncharted territory - along a river - and then chooses to settle OFF the river on a straight plains square.... why? cos it gave him a two good elephant monopoly- WHICH HE COULD NEVER have known about - and as the game was abruptly ended- OFF moves a Slaver and we all know he knew just where to send it.... C-Matrix we know you are a cheat.... one thing bothers me ...... why?? What was the point- Do you think you would gain the respect of the community by beating better players than you? U only defeated one player...... and that was yourself- what a terrible crying shame.... this community took years to develop based on honesty and friendship - It is gonna take a long time (if ever ) before I for one can accept you as a fellow CTP'er again

Well, thats one "****-A-Roach" exposed(reaching for Bigger,brighter light) now to look around, I KNOW I seen more around here!!

	21-05-2002 01:42									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

I just viewed the files and yes a big hummmmmmmmm goes to C-Matrix. What I saw was exactly as Gav describes it. I have to say all games are reviewed sooner or later.

Just play have some fun meet some people and learn from others. Fudging in games simply shows a lack of honor and skill.

As for others Troll we do not witch hunt here. When something really stands out we investigate it. So sooner or later fudgers are exposed and shunned somewhat like what the Klingons do to thier own...

	21-05-2002 02:46									#23
	Support Apolyton

I agree no witch-hunters needed, just beware that due to fine folks out here like Mr.Gavrushka and Mr.Blackice, our Cyber-Ctp-Enforcement Code will be held high, even unto Solver Hall!!

Troll

	21-05-2002 02:55									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

It's a community here including Solver Hall We all like you are here as a unit, friends. Enjoying the game called CTP. We all need to work together to make this thing fun, cheat free and the best it can be.

We all saw the Game league die a miserable death because of questionable players. Our hope is as it has been, this league will grow to enormous size.

	21-05-2002 07:24									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka HANG ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KEYGEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he lives!!!! good to see you buddy!

Good to see you too Garry and all other folks around here

	21-05-2002 18:45									#26
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Nimrod you were not beaten fairly - I had been secretly moderating another of the C-Matrix games, and the results are extremely damning... He cheats- Magical ability to move in strange directions and open ruins, even if on the strangest of territories - Opening EVERY ruin apart from Barbarian ones - THREE avoided in game I moderated - A Settler moving through uncharted territory - along a river - and then chooses to settle OFF the river on a straight plains square.... why? cos it gave him a two good elephant monopoly- WHICH HE COULD NEVER have known about - and as the game was abruptly ended- OFF moves a Slaver and we all know he knew just where to send it.... C-Matrix we know you are a cheat.... one thing bothers me ...... why?? What was the point- Do you think you would gain the respect of the community by beating better players than you? U only defeated one player...... and that was yourself- what a terrible crying shame.... this community took years to develop based on honesty and friendship - It is gonna take a long time (if ever ) before I for one can accept you as a fellow CTP'er again

Right you are Gavrushka.

Where is the defense or confession from C-Matrix? I asked him to post here if he had one or the other to make to the Apolyton community.

	23-05-2002 20:59									#27
	Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I understand completely the frustration and confusion related to my presence here.
I also understand how painful could be to loose your illusions.
Many people here are desperately trying to keep them by playing with weaker players, avoiding games that will show their lack of skills, or simply saying that you are a cheater when they are loosing the game (especially if the lost comes from a newbie).
What Gavrushka is saying means that there are huts I should open and other I shouldn’t, or directions of movement that are forbidden to be played, or tiles where I shouldn’t make cities.
I wouldn’t mind to do so, but of course I should be provided with a list for that things.

On the other hand, apparently I have been “secretly” moderated of more then 2 people and no one of them incl. the official moderator is mentioning the fact that this game has been modified after it started so I couldn’t play my turns ( but this obviously has not been considered important for the purpose of moderating).
The truth is that the hut’s luck can give you some advantage in the beginning of the game, but never can be the main reason to win. Anyway I agree that it will be much better to play without huts.

So am I a cheater?
For those who need to believe that in order to keep their or other people’s illusion, my answer would not matter.
Or am I a good player?
Definitely not brilliant, but I don’t make big mistakes.
Those who played against me can find the answer if they review our games. If they just look carefully they can see how many opportunities have been ignored and mistakes made.

How far then, there will be people at Apolyton doing “secretly” the normal things.
How far then, the people who are loosing against me will believe that the luck or cheating were the reasons that they lost.
And how far then, we shell talk about cheating and accusing each others, instead of learning and having fun while playing, because when the game finish the winner dies also.

The answer is definitely very simple.
You either find some suitable reason (doesn’t matter what, anything goes), cut this bullshit and you can believe in anything you want. I won’t bother you any more.

Or if you need the truth, I am ready to play against alliance of the best 3 PBEM players at Apolyton and to show you how deep CTP goes.

You can crush me now if you want.
If so, this game has to be moderated publicly, what means that everybody will be allowed to observe all turns as the game goes.
No huts will exist on the map and if I loose you will have the best prove that I just talk, cheat and bullshit and the satisfaction of crushing such an arrogant person as me.

Yours in CTP

C-MATRIX

Ps ( And also I have to disappoint those who are sending me Civ3Training packages, especially those containing Back Door Back Orifice, as my training finished long time ago and there are more effective solutions available today)

	23-05-2002 21:20									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My god are you even suggesting that skill or some kind of omniscience dictated your strategy - C Matrix- That is beyond belief - And the accusation against playing poorer players who was that directed at?

You had a chance to come clean and blew it -

C - Matrix answer this - do you admit you knew that the three ruins of the 15 you found- the ONLY three you did not open were Barbarians? Did you have a sudden insight into an invisible portion of the map to settle a city in a ludicrous location crossing a river to magically discover a second trade good in the perimeter? Did your warrior of his own accord wander directly to a ruin in Arctic Wasteland, find a goody hut, and turn back?

I'll make this ever so simple for you.... DID YOU CHEAT?

Solver, I would formally request that C-Matrix be excluded from all ratings.

	23-05-2002 23:53									#29
	Tired of ads?

Gavrushka is slowly turning into Annushka!

The changes could be irreversible!!!

	24-05-2002 00:37									#30
	Got spare money?

Easy Jppw... This C-Matrix needs to be made an example of to the rest of this forum. I'm with you Gavrushka... Go on C-Matrix -- Continue with your looooodicrous defense... Answer Gavrushka's questions.