28-05-2002 17:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns While they can easily be captured, at least they can't be used against you that battle.

Don't they get destroyed if they are captured, if you win the battle?

	28-05-2002 18:01									#32
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper Yeah, but by then you should be sporting auto-fire disruptors anyway.

Nah, auto-fire shield-piercing phasors.

	28-05-2002 20:44									#33
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Yes captured star bases or BS are lost after the battle regardless of who wins.

	29-05-2002 03:35									#34
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I prefer AF Disruptors, although unless you have the High energy focus they won't penetrate a fully shielded planet.

	29-05-2002 03:35									#35
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One of the more irritating trait of the game. Capturing would be worthwhile if you could keep'em.

	29-05-2002 14:28									#36
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At least you can keep ships that you capture (although you can't refit them)

	29-05-2002 15:10									#37
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Yes, but ten AI ships are mostly worthless. You can always scrap them and hope for tech, I suppose.

Capturing SB/BS/SFs would make the boarding game worthwhile. These things give insta-CP after all.

	30-05-2002 08:43									#38
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Capturing Antaran ships is always fun (when you can)

But yes, otherwise they are just a source of funds, and sometimes tech.

	30-05-2002 09:10									#39
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Captured ships also seem to act as a meat shield. AI ships target these first over almost all else. Have one in your fleet, run it to the rear and you can absorb the entirety of a couple of fire phases worth of enemy beams and missiles if you're lucky.
Meanwhile your ships are targetting the enemy from point blank.
This sorta seems a bit cheesy though.

Antaran ships are great. If you manage to reverse-engineer their shield damper and combine it with auto-repair and one or both of heavy armour/hull you have ships that can absorb an unbelievable ammount of damage. Displacement devices - although a bit late in the game - would make this combo even better.

	30-05-2002 09:46									#40
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I should try a few of he different combos for ships. Normally I only put Heavy Armor, Battle Scanner and Battle Pods in ships smaller than titan class. In titans I will add one or two items, but not always. I will go to Orion and get the X-armor (most of the time)so I do not need much else. Anyway since I am only making BB class, I can afford to lose one once in awhile.

	30-05-2002 13:01									#41
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Captured ships also seem to act as a meat shield. AI ships target these first over almost all else. Have one in your fleet, run it to the rear and you can absorb the entirety of a couple of fire phases worth of enemy beams and missiles if you're lucky. Meanwhile your ships are targetting the enemy from point blank. This sorta seems a bit cheesy though.

Hey, I didn't think of that, although now that you've said it I rather think it works that way from wht limited experience I have of using captures.

I suppose I'll have to try it as a strategy tonight. You're to blame for me breaking this self-enforce MOO abstinence, you know!

	30-05-2002 13:41									#42
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper You're to blame for me breaking this self-enforce MOO abstinence, you know!

I will take that as the compliment it is.

Just don't tell Vel!

	30-05-2002 14:05									#43
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It looks to me as if the AI will always target the ships with the lowest hull point / size ratio (that is, they will target titans without superior armor and HA/RH before destroyers with those items, even if the titans have more overall HPs); I think captured ships are targeted by AI because the HP/S ratio on those ships is usually pretty stinky. OTOH, the AI will target ships captured in that battle with absolute preference.

	30-05-2002 14:19									#44
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That actually makes some sense, since they may have juicy tech tha AI would rather not share with you. A competent AI decision, albeit a exploitable one...

	31-05-2002 10:05									#45
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I'd tend to think the targetting of new captures is more likely a result of the no armour/hull thing and the closer proximity to AI forces, rather than a concerted effort on the AI's part to deny tech ...
ie: I don't think its that smart.

	31-05-2002 13:10									#46
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Well, I won't insist on that one...

	31-05-2002 13:18									#47
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Well yeah, it's a shame that one cannot make designs for star bases, battlestations, star fortresses, missile bases and battery bases.... it would be wonderful, if you could have 50xFastArmouredEMMCMirv nuclear missiles and 150xHvEnv fusion beams in the planet....

	31-05-2002 23:42									#48
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The basic problem with all the orbitals is that they are WAY TOO SMALL. I could probably live with the computer armament (not happily, but hey...) if there was like twenty times more of it.

Something like that Antie SF, in fact

	01-06-2002 01:08									#49
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I would have like them to allow you to build more of any planetary defence, with some limit. In Moo, you can have as many missile bases as you can afford. In Ascendancy they have only so much orbital space for missile on shield, same for planets. Pax had the ability to add more defenses, but not unlimited. I suspect it was not a balance issue (since there is no balance), but would require some work to depict the orbital stuff. If so they could have placed a number to show more than one and no mix and matching (star base and battlestation) only one type allowed at a time. Like an RTS, some people like to build defences and some will skimp. I recall playing Command and Conquer (modem connect in those days at 28.8) with a friend and he was amazed when the AI launched a huge attack at my base and it failed, because I like to build defences.

	01-06-2002 01:12									#50
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I'd not go for defenses if I can build ships, myself. Still, the option to "dig in" would be nice.

	01-06-2002 04:35									#51
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Once the wars start, you have point that you do not have enough ships to cover everything, that is when it would be nice to be able to boost defences, if needed. I admit, I do not build ships as soon as most. I wait as long as I can to start. Usually until I can make a BB in 15 or less turns. I do not make smaller ships, except on a very rare occasion.

	01-06-2002 14:44									#52
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Interesting. My first fleet is entirely based on frigates, my second on destroyers and then I take the plunge for BBs for the third. All serve me well.

I frankly can't imagine going without ships before I'm able to build BBs... the AI would eat me alive. How do you mange that? About what turn do you usually start producing your BBs?

	01-06-2002 23:08									#53
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I am not sure what the turn is, but it occurs when I have built all buildings and terraforming for the best planet I have. The research is at the 1150 or 1500 tree. I can't see poring resources(time) into making a ship in 30 or more turns. My feeling is, I wil out produce them and that lets me out research them. If I take lots of workers off the science function to make a ship, that slows down my research. Down the road it will make me way behind where I want to be. I change up, if I am under attack. This strat puts me in a huge bind with the AI and they make more ships and sometimes think they can lean on me. By the time they start in with that trash, I will make a ship on my best planet and basiclly never stop building them, except to put up a new facility. I do not need as many ships as them as mine will be much better and I will not sit onthem as the AI does (ever see them with large fleets and they do not attack?). Like I say, this can make for a tough time until I get 4-6 BB's built. So after I will get plasma cannons and refit and take done Orion. From then on it becomes a mop up. Yes some good battles may occur, but if I got X-armor out of Orion, lights out. Even without it, Loknar kicks for for some time.

	02-06-2002 18:07									#54
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Hm. In my game unless I have a viable fleet the AI will come for me every time. But then I don't expand too much (ten colonies max) and play huge galaxies, so perhaps I look like more of a target.

	02-06-2002 23:41									#55
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They always come for me, the when is a function of the map size and the luck of the draw. If the near ones are not aggressive, you have a little more time. They come and I can not attack as I do not have much fleet, but they are weak, so all I do is hold on until I get a fleet put together. If they come too soon, I will start my fleet build sooner. I just like to wait until I have nothing else to do and the planet is productive enough.I like building and want to be first in research as soon as I can. I do not play many huge maps, but when I do it takes a while before they even make contact.

	03-06-2002 16:42									#56
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Perhaps you simply look more dangerous than I do?

	03-06-2002 19:47									#57
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I agree, by the time that I have teraforming, they are all over me. It is at this time that I start building battleships or titans just to keep them off my A$$. I've been trying to do the chill on expansion and maximize my research, but that is not working for me. Damned Antareans are attcking me anyhow. I'm going back to rapid expansion.

R:PM

	04-06-2002 01:28									#58
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Oh, you should expand rapidy, but you should stop expansion sooner if you want to avoid the Anties. Also, do a lot of in-system outposts, if you can - mitigates Antie risk as well.

	04-06-2002 18:15									#59
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Are you implying that they go for the outposts instead of my planets? Or do they generally attack the weakest planet in a system?

	04-06-2002 19:59									#60
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It seems to be random what they attack, and outposts count. So if you have a system with one colony and three outpost, chances are they will wipe some outpost and not you colony.