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BigRich
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of the Trentan
May 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Chowlett
This is getting Mucho interesting! I particularly like the circular Area of Effect casts! They bring to mind one of the more successful element of B&W, where you could cast shields and the like over regions of ground.
And I really like the trade-off you'd have between the need to cast a huge-area/power spell, and the time it would take to get your sigil patterns up!
And my imagination is overloading (a pity - means we probably can't draw it  ) with images of a mage standing in the middle of the sigil pattern, chanting for all he's worth summoning the power of the surrounding sigils, which begin to pulsate and channel their energy into him, which he thrusts sky-ward in a burst of light that hits an invisible barrier and spreads down over the land to encompass the area of effect! Whew - I was thinking in shouts above that howling gale there! |
Great imagery Chowlett - that would make one heck of a cut scene! Of course if the graphics engine could handle it on the map 
And then after the storm subsides and the din of battle fades away, the old man rides towards the arcane monolith. The sun slowly sinks below the horizon as he dismounts and kneels before its intricately carved surface, as if in supplication. He closes his eyes and begins to mutter under his breath.....
A vast silence descends and then ripples outwards. In the nearby town, the dust swirls briefly as if stirred by a sudden breeze. The cattle low uneasily in the fields. Dogs growl, hackles raised, at something unseen in the corner.
As evening fades into twilight, the ripple hits the enchanted sigils at the border of the province. A soft glow highlights the ornate patterns for a moment and then disappears. Back in the town the darkness begins to seem less menacing. The dead must be buried, the homesteads rebuilt and the fields replanted. But this no longer seems the impossible task it once was. The townsfolk retire for the night with new heart and new resolve.
The old man climbs back onto his donkey and trots away into the night......
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BigRich
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of the Trentan
May 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by cyclotron7
Some excellent ideas... why does everybody post when I'm asleep?
Although I'm a long time AD&D afficianado, I think having level-less spells is a good idea to streamline gameplay and take the artificial feeling out of it. Of course, we need some distinct qualifyier, which is why I made religion-spells influence dependent.
We need to be careful with clutter if we make magic into tile improvements. Mines, plus fields and roads, will already make the map dense, not to mention placing sigil patterns all over the map. It's a good idea, but I think some of the patterns need to be a little smaller/less dense. Another factor with sigils is that perhaps using them is optional: You can cast the spell instantly with no sigils, but it is weaker and more expensive. Perhaps:
I want to use the Laernen spell "Fertility" on my fields. Normally cast, this spell improved food produciton for one tile. I can enchant one field tile with a Sigil of Fertility, which makes it so every time I cast Fertility on that tile it only costs me half the mana.
Later, I decide that I need more to boost the growth of that province. I enchant another tile with a Sigil of Fertility adjacent to the one I placed before. Later, I place a third Sigil, also adjacent to the first.
Now that I have placed 3 adjacent Sigils, the two newer Sigils vanish (poof) and the first center Sigil becomes a Greater Sigil of Fertility. This Greater Sigil allows me to cast Fertility at half price on ANY tile adjacent to the Greater Sigil.
This approach would lower clutter, especially if we prohibit Greater Sigils from overlapping. Artistry could also benefit this one, i.e. Sigils would look like wierd crop circles or something, and Greater Sigils would look like very intricate crop circles.
This approach would also make the player choose between augmenting his provinces in different ways: Since Greater Sigils can't overlap, is it better to support your population and prosperity with Fertility Sigils, or strengthen your defense with a Greater Sigil of Renewal? |
I like it. A much neater approach to the graphics! As far as level-less spells go, I'd kind of envisaged that a mage would have instant access to all kinds of spell, whether he gets them all at the start of the game, or acquires them by spellbooks found during the game or whatever. (Maybe this could be tied in to the number of research institutions a faction possesses).
The thing is, even if the mage knows how to cast a particular spell, he can only actually use it when standing at an appropriate sigil. The spell 'levels' in my post were more a convenient label for indicating relative spell power than a D&D style 'I learn 1st, then 2nd then 3rd .... level spells.
Unless all spells are roughly the same power of course. And then the sigils provide bonuses to spellcasting as above, which would be cool. Forcing the player to choose between different magical augmentations would be very neat as well!
I was figuring that a certain sigil would allow a certain power of spell to be cast, without restrictions as to the actual Deity type and then trying place limitations on the number of (Passive) spells that could influence a region at any one time. The 'sigils as bonus providers' would definitely be less complicated!
Rich.
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BigRich
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of the Trentan
May 2001
time: 05:19
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Morning,
Just a thought - what would be the general opinion on a 'Spell Workshop'. The kind of thing where you have a list of effects, probably broken down by Deity type, spell type or whatever and you mix and match those effects to generate custom spells. Either all the options would be available right at the start, or some would only become available after research.
I don't know if any of you guys have played 'Ars Magica' - pen and paper rpg, but the magic system in that was great, indeed as the name suggests it was kinda the focus of the whole system. Based on around general spell types, air, fire, water, earth, animal, plant ... and a few more that I can't remember, all with suitably Latinised names (might even have been proper Latin, I'm not enough of a linguist to know.) No fixed spell lists at all, the player would think up a spell to research and the gamesmaster would classify it in terms of the different spell categories and then assign it a difficulty. The more categories it cut across, in general the more difficult it was.
I would love to see that kind of thing implemented in a computer game and the nearest thing I could think of was the Workshop idea. Couple of drawbacks, proper AI use and general balance in multiplayer. After all its not going to be any fun if a random mystery spell goes off in one of your provinces without warning.
AI use workround. Probably give the computer a built in list of the more useful combinations. Possibility of adding to the list with patches. This is entirely hot air as I have *no* idea about the programming feasibilities of this.
Multiplayer balance. Give spells a casting time in turns. Make them subject to scrying by opposing mages, who have a chance to figure out one or more of the features making up the spell, giving them time to start working on a counterspell.
I guess this system would be more suited to larger scale crop blighting, weather altering, terrain shifting, animal migrating type of spells - things that would affect the main map, rather than battlefield fireball slinging types of spells .
thoughts,
Rich.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by BigRich
Just a thought - what would be the general opinion on a 'Spell Workshop'. The kind of thing where you have a list of effects, probably broken down by Deity type, spell type or whatever and you mix and match those effects to generate custom spells. Either all the options would be available right at the start, or some would only become available after research. |
That's probably a lot more diffiuclt to deal with than a list of premade spells. It will take exhaustive testing to find out whether any of the combinations is open to abuse, that they are particular cheap or powerful.
quote:
Originally posted by BigRich
I don't know if any of you guys have played 'Ars Magica' - pen and paper rpg, but the magic system in that was great, indeed as the name suggests it was kinda the focus of the whole system. Based on around general spell types, air, fire, water, earth, animal, plant ... and a few more that I can't remember, all with suitably Latinised names (might even have been proper Latin, I'm not enough of a linguist to know.) No fixed spell lists at all, the player would think up a spell to research and the gamesmaster would classify it in terms of the different spell categories and then assign it a difficulty. The more categories it cut across, in general the more difficult it was. |
You sure? IIRC, there are various established houses/colleges in the game universe, each with its own list of spells. Almost all the wizards/mages belong to one of the houses.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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::nodding:: I would most definately agree with that...and just as a general heads up...as I did with the combat thread, I'll be compiling the ideas gathered from here into a central document, and adding in some additional thinking I've been doing on the subject, and we'll see what we've got! I'm thinking it pretty well rocks, from a brief review of the thread thus far!
Oh...one other idea...actually, I was saving this one for a game down the road called "Holy War" but as we're developing a strong religious bent with Candle'Bre's own magic system, it occurs to me that it could be made to work here as well, and that is the notion of an "ars magica" type game (clickable player option) where by, if the option is selected, then on turn zero, a "major act of magic" occurs randomly from a set of effects (ballpark it at, say 30 effects per god/goddess), courtesy of one of the gods/goddesses we build into the Candle'Bre universe. This wampum magical event has implications that will subtly (and often not so subtly) impact the flavor and character of the game.
Ideally, these Major Arcane Events will be moddable, tweakable, and editable by players to further enhance and alter the flavor of each game. Some ideas off the cuff would be things like:
Witch Hunt: Factions may not align themselves with more than one god/goddess. The rest are regarded as heretics. Could RADICALLY alter expansion policies, as close attention must be paid when taking over a new territory. If they're of a different religion, you'll have a bear of a time keeping them happy.
Honor's Deathknell: Limits the honor pool to the 20 that each player starts with, effectively removing honor as a victory condition. Should lead to a real backstabber of a game.
Lionhearts: Across the board, all troops gain a 40% morale boost and troop training limits are eased (you can train double the normal number of troops in a province containing a barracks).
Burst of Innovation: All factions get 250 research points to spend on the setup turn.
Stuff like that....
-=Vel=-
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08-05-2002 13:42
UR...I really like that idea! 
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