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Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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  Old Post 22-05-2002 02:59 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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'k...well, here's the beginnings of a magic system that, I think, Incorporates most of the key concepts we've been batting around here thus far...let me know if I have captured the essence of the ideas presented thus far....
*****

The Magic of Candle'Bre, v1.0

Magic in Candle’Bre is highly elemental in its essential nature. While there are influences made and clearly felt by other branches of magic, by and large, what magic you see in the Kingdom has a decidedly “earthy” feel to it, and the general trend is that magicks which fall outside these elemental bounds are costlier both in terms of up front mana spent and maintenance.

All magic stems from the gods. Thus, winning favor with, the gods, and maintaining good relations with the Churches of the realm is essential if one is to be in a position to reliably make use of the various spells the gods can bestow to those whom they smile upon.

Influence – The fuel that powers the engine
Influence generation with the various religions of Candle’Bre is both the currency used to “purchase” the services of magic-using/wielding units (Battle Mages and Disciples) and to make use of the powers and miracles each church can provide (intercessions and spells/miracles). Influence is generated by constructing temples to further the glory of a certain god or goddess (it should be noted that upgrades to temples generate more influence than non-upgraded temples).


Magic-Wielding Units
There are two types of Magic-Using/Wielding units in Candle’Bre….Battle Mages and Disciples. Both can be “purchased” in territories containing a temple to a particular god/goddess, and both by spending 20 Influence to gain the use of their services.

Unit Stats

Unit Name: Battle Mage
Attack Rating: 0
Armour Rating 10
Speed 15
Hit Points 4
Tactical Movement Rate 6
Damage 0
Experience 0 (at start default)
Morale 100%

Special Ability Slot 1 Uses Battle Magic

Special Ability Slot 2 None

Cost: 20i

Notes: Battle Mages are some of the most fierce and terrifying units on the board, and yet, among the most fragile and easily killed. Care must be taken with their placement and use, but wise indeed is the General who takes to the field with a Battle Mage in the ranks. Battle Mages of other faiths are often derisively referred to as “Sorcerers.”


Unit Name: Disciple
Attack Rating: 0
Armour Rating 10
Speed 15
Hit Points 4
Tactical Movement Rate 5
Damage 0
Experience 0 (at start default)
Morale 100%

Special Ability Slot 1 Uses High Magic

Special Ability Slot 2 (None)

Cost: 20i

Notes: Enigmatic and mysterious, Disciples are practitioners of High Magic (Disciples of other faiths are often derisively called “Witches”). As such, they are intimately in tune with the land, and their spells often have widespread effects that can enormously impact entire regions for good or ill. They sometimes have powers that mimic their Battle Mage cousins, but where such overlaps occur, their powers invariably manifest themselves in markedly different ways.

Battle Mages and Disciples Explained
It is important to note here that neither Battle Mages nor Disciples actually memorize and “cast” their spells. Rather, the sum total of energy of the churches under your control generate an amount of Influence, and that Influence is channeled through the Battle Mages and Disciples to call forth spells, effects, and other miracles for those who command them.

Types of Spells
Spells fall into two broad categories called “High Magic” and “Battle Magic.” Detailed descriptions are below, but the gist of the difference is that High Magic effects entire Provinces, while Battle Magic is utilized on the Tactical Battle Map to enhance or destroy military units.

Each god/goddess in Candle’Bre holds sway over a different sphere of influence. Sometimes (often?) these spheres of influence will somewhat overlap with other gods/goddesses, in such a way that you may find powers in common when currying favor with more than one at a time, but ultimately, should you choose to bind yourself increasingly closer to one particular god or goddess, you will find that greater being offering to become your Patron…when that happens, you gain access to deeper, more potent and wonderful miracles to further your own ends.

Patronage
The pantheon of Candle’Bre consists of two gods and two goddesses. If at any point during the game, any player gains X influence with one particular Church, that player can elect to accept the patronage of that god or goddess.

Effects of Patronage
All temples to all other gods/goddesses in your territories are destroyed. All influence built up from other churches is lost and converted into the Patron god/goddess influence at a 1:1 ratio. Other players may collect influence for intercessions, but may not receive any spells with a casting cost greater than 20 (this means they maintain access to most battle spells, and the less costly High Magic spells). Intercessions from this church will not be honored if the request is to block attacks by the player who has patronage. Influence rates from all temples to the Patron god/goddess are doubled. If temples to other gods/goddesses are rebuilt later, they produce the expected happiness effect, half normal influence, and those churches will grant NO boons or miracles (meaning that the only thing you could buy with your influence would be intercessions).

Ending patronage
Can be done voluntarily, and at any time, but doing so angers the god or goddess who offered the patronage to begin with. Influence rates will be halved at all temples to that god/goddess for the remainder of the game.

High Magic Spells
Spells which are Provincial in their nature (ie – Cast upon targeted provinces on the main map display), High Magic spells are quite costly in terms of Influence. Many, if not most High Magic Spells are Iterative in nature (see the note below on Iterative Magic), and may, if the caster has sufficient stores of Mana, be cast on multiple provinces in the same turn. High Magic spells are cast by Disciples (special unit).


Battle Magic Spells
Battle Magic spells are cast on specific units during the course of a battle. Thus, the only time Battle Magic gets utilized is on the Tactical Combat resolution screen. Many (most?) Battle Magic spells are Iterative in their nature (see below the note on Iterative Magic), and, Influence permitting, can be cast upon multiple targets. Battle Magic spells are cast by Battle Mages (special unit).

Notes on Iterative Magic
The gods can be fickle. Because of that, no spell may be cast more than once in any given round (players who have Patronage are the exception here, being able to cast each spell twice a round). This is not to say that a given spell cannot have multiple targets when cast, because many (but not all) certainly can, it’s just that all targets for a given spell must be chosen at the time of casting, and there’s a premium to pay for additional targets, figured thusly: Casting Cost + (C + 2N) <---- For each iteration of the spell, where C is the original casting cost, and N is the number of the iteration (Example, if a spell that has a base cost of 10 is being cast on four separate targets, then the total casting cost of the spell would be 10 (first casting) + (10+4)(second casting) + (10+6)(third casting) + (10+8)(fourth casting) for a total of 58.

Ley Lines, Crop Circles, Mysterious Rock Formations, Runes, Sigils, and other oddities
Given the largely elemental nature of Candle'Bre's magic, it makes a certain logical sense that there would be, scattered about the land itself, certain natural "focus points" where magic is easier to cast/more resistant to outside influence. These places are designated by a variety of graphical icons (crop circles, Stone Henge-looking places, and the like). High magic spells cast on a province containing such a place are either more receptive to, or more resistant to the spell being cast (if you are targeting an enemy province with an attack-oriented spell, provinces containing special magic enhancing tiles have a base 50% chance to simply ward off the spell, minus 5% per 10 Influence of the base cost of the spell. If the spell is of a beneficial nature, and is being cast on a province controlled by you or an ally, the presence of such an magical nexus is as follows:

Stone-Henge-looking tiles: Halves the cost of the target spell

Crop Circle-looking tiles: Doubles the effect of the target spell

All other magic enhancing tiles: removes the iterative premium from the cost of the target spell.

Sigils
Every god/goddess has a sigil. A symbol that marks their presence and particularly strong influence over a region.

Candle’Bre has, scattered upon it, certain regions held by the various gods/goddesses as being of varying degrees of import to them, and these areas are marked by sigils. In general terms, the sigils of the gods and goddesses of Candle’Bre can be found or guessed at by tracing imaginary lines between magical focal points. Where two or more Ley Lines intersect, a sigil is likely to be found. The more lines of intersection to be had, the more potent the sigil is.

Effects of Sigils
Certain spells (noted in the spell descriptions to follow) can ONLY be cast on provinces/tiles containing sigils. Certain other spells (also noted in the spell descriptions to follow) may be cast to greater effect if cast FROM a province/tile containing a sigil (specifically, in this case, referring to spells cast by magic-wielding units (Battle Mages and Disciples), who can use the sigil—symbol of their god/goddess—to magnify their own powers).

-=Vel=-

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  Old Post 22-05-2002 08:42
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Excellent.

Now if you can just explain what experiences do for the special magic-wielding units.

moomin is offline moomin
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Just a short thought: when I hear the term crop circle, I think of UFO nuts, cattle kindnappin' aliens, X-Files and BLAK HELIKOPTERS (tm). It somehow doesn't fit in with the magic world of CB, methinks.

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  Old Post 22-05-2002 19:53
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OK thought I would try to repost the gist of conversation last night inthe chat room re:

Was talkin 'bout the idea of sygils and mana path intersections being the nexxus of magic and therefore the place whre magic is most focussed and strongest for high magic.

Then I suggested we consider the mana ley lines in distinct flavors namely:

Earth mana
Wind mana
Water mana
Fire Mana

Spirit Mana

After a bit of discussion we decided to consider spirit mana and fire mana as separate mana ley lines.

Each mana source allows its own school/college of magix. The combination of sources allow for cool high magix affects like for example:

Air + Water = Allows Storms in a province
Air + Fire = Allow droughts


Spirit + Air = Allow healing

Obviously the more mana sources employed the more powerful the effects of the high magix.

It was also suggested it would be interesting to see if there was a means to damn up or stop the flow of mana at a nexxus as a means to have a denial ploy 'gainst other provinces/factions.

Thoughts?

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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
OK thought I would try to repost the gist of conversation last night inthe chat room re:


And I missed it ... shame ... catch you guys next time.

I like those ideas though, especially making Fire and Spirit seperate. However the schools of magic end up being divided it makes sense to have 5 of them ... or 3 or 7 ... any odd number really, because then you don't simply have diametrically opposite schools, but some that have more compex interactions.

Fire + Earth = Volcanoes, Earthquakes etc ...

Water + Earth = Flash Floods etc..

We should try and work out what the base characteristics of each type of element are ... and specifically the way that the element will function in the game world. This could serve as a base fr coming up with spell combinations ... letting us know what is 'in flavour' (as the Magic:The Gathering R&D would say ) for each magic school.
Ideas:
Fire = damage and destruction
Air = Speed and Travelling (ability to cast spells over a longer range etc..)
Earth = Growth and Renewal
Spirit = anything affecting the people of Candle'Bre directly ... like Healing or Persuasion (getting a unit to defect) etc...
Water = erm *shrugs* /me runs out of ideas

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 22-05-2002 20:18
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FP,

You got the gist of it. If others find this kinna approach agreeeable yeah first step is to understand the influence of the shools of magic.

Next step consider implications of cross over effects. etc.

I think the graphics could be way cool (seeing ley lines flowing in different colors over the map in a translucent kinna effect ).

Waits for Vel and others to check in

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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That's me too, Og! I've been sitting over here between calls this morning trying to capture the essence of the impromptu chat! Should have something posted soonish....a revision to the 1.0 Magic document!

-=Vel=-

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The Magic of Candle'Bre, v2.0
(made a wholly new file cos there was so much that changed!)
*****

Magic in Candle’Bre is highly elemental in its essential nature. While there are influences made and clearly felt by other branches of magic, by and large, what magic you see in the Kingdom has a decidedly “earthy” feel to it, and the general trend is that magicks which fall outside these elemental bounds are costlier both in terms of up front influence spent and maintenance.

All magic stems from the gods. Thus, winning favor with, the gods, and maintaining good relations with the Churches of the realm is essential if one is to be in a position to reliably make use of the various spells the gods can bestow to those whom they smile upon.

Influence – The fuel that powers the engine
Influence generation with the various religions of Candle’Bre is both the currency used to “purchase” the services of magic-using/wielding units (Battle Mages and Disciples) and to make use of the powers and miracles each church can provide (intercessions and spells/miracles). Influence is generated by constructing temples to further the glory of a certain god or goddess (it should be noted that upgrades to temples generate more influence than non-upgraded temples).

Magic-Wielding Units
There are two types of Magic-Using/Wielding units in Candle’Bre….Battle Mages and Disciples. Both can be “purchased” in territories containing a temple to a particular god/goddess, and both by spending 20 Influence to gain the use of their services.

Unit Stats

Unit Name: Battle Mage
Attack Rating: 0
Armour Rating 10
Speed 15
Hit Points 4
Tactical Movement Rate 6
Damage 0
Experience 0 (at start default)
Morale 100%

Special Ability Slot 1 Uses Battle Magic

Special Ability Slot 2 None

Cost: 20i

Notes: Battle Mages are some of the most fierce and terrifying units on the board, and yet, among the most fragile and easily killed. Care must be taken with their placement and use, but wise indeed is the General who takes to the field with a Battle Mage in the ranks. Battle Mages of other faiths are often derisively referred to as “Sorcerers.”


Unit Name: Disciple
Attack Rating: 0
Armour Rating 10
Speed 15
Hit Points 4
Tactical Movement Rate 5
Damage 0
Experience 0 (at start default)
Morale 100%

Special Ability Slot 1 Uses High Magic

Special Ability Slot 2 (None)

Cost: 20i

Notes: Enigmatic and mysterious, Disciples are practitioners of High Magic (Disciples of other faiths are often derisively called “Witches”). As such, they are intimately in tune with the land, and their spells often have widespread effects that can enormously impact entire regions for good or ill. They sometimes have powers that mimic their Battle Mage cousins, but where such overlaps occur, their powers invariably manifest themselves in markedly different ways.

Battle Mages and Disciples Explained
It is important to note here that neither Battle Mages nor Disciples actually memorize and “cast” their spells. Rather, the sum total of energy of the churches under your control generate an amount of Influence, and that Influence is channeled through the Battle Mages and Disciples to call forth spells, effects, and other miracles for those who command them.

Experience for Magic Wielding Units
Magic wielding units gain experience in two ways. For every spell successfully cast (spells cast against resistant provinces that cause those spells to fizzle, for example, do not count), the spell caster earns one (1) experience point, and for every three battles the spell caster survives, he earns one (1) point. Every twenty experience points, the spell caster gains power in the church he is affiliated with. This is expressed in game terms by the fact that Disciples and Battle Mages begin generating Influence on their own when they reach second level. (I = L-1, where I is the amount of influence the Magic Wielding unit generates each turn, and L is the “level” of the unit in question). Thus, having successful magic wielding units in play will see them paying for themselves in short order, and then begin paying handsome dividends.

Types of Spells
Spells fall into two broad categories called “High Magic” and “Battle Magic.” Detailed descriptions are below, but the gist of the difference is that High Magic effects entire Provinces, while Battle Magic is utilized on the Tactical Battle Map to enhance or destroy military units.

Each god/goddess in Candle’Bre holds sway over a different sphere of influence. Sometimes (often?) these spheres of influence will somewhat overlap with other gods/goddesses, in such a way that you may find powers in common when currying favor with more than one at a time, but ultimately, should you choose to bind yourself increasingly closer to one particular god or goddess, you will find that greater being offering to become your Patron…when that happens, you gain access to deeper, more potent and wonderful miracles to further your own ends.

Patronage
The pantheon of Candle’Bre consists of two gods and two goddesses. If at any point during the game, any player gains X influence with one particular Church, that player can elect to accept the patronage of that god or goddess.

Effects of Patronage
All temples to all other gods/goddesses in your territories are destroyed. All influence built up from other churches is lost and converted into the Patron god/goddess influence at a 1:1 ratio. Other players may collect influence for intercessions, but may not receive any spells with a casting cost greater than 20 (this means they maintain access to most battle spells, and the less costly High Magic spells). Other (non-patron) players also may NOT cast iterative versions of any spell. Intercessions from this church will not be honored if the request is to block attacks by the player who has patronage. Influence rates from all temples to the Patron god/goddess are doubled. If temples to other gods/goddesses are rebuilt later, they produce the expected happiness effect, half normal influence, and those churches will grant NO boons or miracles (meaning that the only thing you could buy with your influence would be intercessions).

Ending patronage
Can be done voluntarily, and at any time, but doing so angers the god or goddess who offered the patronage to begin with. Influence rates will be halved at all temples to that god/goddess for the remainder of the game.

High Magic Spells
Spells which are Provincial in their nature (ie – Cast upon targeted provinces on the main map display), High Magic spells are quite costly in terms of Influence. Many, if not most High Magic Spells are Iterative in nature (see the note below on Iterative Magic), and may, if the caster has sufficient stores of Mana, be cast on multiple provinces in the same turn. High Magic spells are cast by Disciples (special unit).

Battle Magic Spells
Battle Magic spells are cast on specific units during the course of a battle. Thus, the only time Battle Magic gets utilized is on the Tactical Combat resolution screen. Many (most?) Battle Magic spells are Iterative in their nature (see below the note on Iterative Magic), and, Influence permitting, can be cast upon multiple targets. Battle Magic spells are cast by Battle Mages (special unit).

Notes on Iterative Magic
The gods can be fickle. Because of that, no spell may be cast more than once in any given round (players who have Patronage are the exception here, being able to cast each spell twice a round). This is not to say that a given spell cannot have multiple targets when cast, because many (but not all) certainly can, it’s just that all targets for a given spell must be chosen at the time of casting, and there’s a premium to pay for additional targets, figured thusly: Casting Cost + (C + 2N) <---- For each iteration of the spell, where C is the original casting cost, and N is the number of the iteration (Example, if a spell that has a base cost of 10 is being cast on four separate targets, then the total casting cost of the spell would be 10 (first casting) + (10+4)(second casting) + (10+6)(third casting) + (10+8)(fourth casting) for a total of 58.

Ley Lines, Crop Circles, Mysterious Rock Formations, Runes, Sigils, and other oddities
Given the largely elemental nature of Candle'Bre's magic, it makes a certain logical sense that there would be, scattered about the land itself, certain natural "focus points" where magic is easier to cast/more resistant to outside influence. These places are designated by a variety of graphical icons (crop circles, Stone Henge-looking places, and the like). High magic spells cast on a province containing such a place are either more receptive to, or more resistant to the spell being cast (if you are targeting an enemy province with an attack-oriented spell, provinces containing special magic enhancing tiles have a base 50% chance to simply ward off the spell, minus 5% per 10 Influence of the base cost of the spell. If the spell is of a beneficial nature, and is being cast on a province controlled by you or an ally, the presence of such an magical nexus is as follows:

Stone-Henge-looking tiles: Halves the cost of the target spell

Crop Circle-looking tiles: Doubles the effect of the target spell

All other magic enhancing tiles: removes the iterative premium from the cost of the target spell.

Thaumaturgy
Battle Mages and/or Disciples can, if they spend a turn not moving and not casting for you, generate a point of research in a special research field called Thaumaturgy (note: if the battle mage/disciple is not moving and not casting, and is also in a province containing a Scribe Tower, he generates 2 research points toward Thaumaturgy). Once you have gained 200 research points in this field, your mages and wise men puzzle out how to build Celestial Calendars (icon resembling Stonehenge, but not fallen down). (Cost to build such a structure is 150g)

Effects of building Celestial Calendars
The immediate effect is that these structures increase your Influence with the god/goddess you build them for (1 pt. Per turn).

They also can, if within (x distance, to be determined later), tap into the energies of other ley lines, and channel some portion of that energy into a sigil you control, increasing its power, and potentially changing its nature. (see below re: sigils)

Elemental Sigils
The magical “focus points” in Candle’Bre mentioned above are like dots on an imaginary plane. If you were to draw a line through those dots, you would get what those learned in the ways of magic refer to as “ley lines.” Where ley lines intersect, you find Sigils.

Sigils are elemental in their nature, and those who master them, and claim them for the greater glory of the god/goddess they follow will find themselves gaining still greater access to elemental powers and miracles.

The more intersecting ley lines that feed into a sigil spot, the more powerful the sigil is likely to be (and the more unpredictable).

There are five principal elements that can be formed at the intersection of ley lines, and they are: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Spirit.

Normally, sigils will only form when the two intersecting ley lines are of the same element (that is to say that under normal conditions, the intersection of a water line and a fire line will not result in the creation of a sigil), but as you have read above, there are artificial ways in which ley lines from two (or more) elements can be combined into a single sigil. When such combinations occur, they unlock an increasingly exotic series of powers (as you might guess, it is both extremely difficult and quite rare to see a sigil connected to all five elements, and the powers such a sigil might grant those who controlled it would be…almost beyond imagining (ed note: *evil grin* - which means we really gotta cook something good up for this one!)

Taking control of an Elemental Sigil in territory you own
Much as Kings and Lords are loathe to admit it, there are some things that dwell in and on lands claimed by them that they do not own simply by stating it to be so, and Sigils most assuredly fall into that category. In order to lay claim to and activate the powers of a sigil, you must place either a battle mage or a disciple ON the tile containing the sigil, and sacrifice him, along with a token gift of 50g (or some other symbolic sacrifice). Doing so will cause the sigil to pulse with power, signifying that it is now yours to command.

Elemental Sigils by themselves allow the summoning of an elemental of the appropriate type (stats below). These are units that you can add to your army. For every “pure” (like element) ley line that feeds into the sigil, double the elemental’s hit points from the baseline, and add +6 to the damage. Elementals cost (X) influence to summon, and remain on the board from the moment of summoning until the start of your next turn, whereupon they vanish until called upon again. As you can see by their stats, elementals make a fearsome addition to your army.

Note that adding in ley lines from other elements may (will) “break” your ability to summon these elementals, as you taint the sigil with other elemental powers.

(sample elemental stats)

Unit Name: Earth Elemental
Attack Rating: 95
Armour Rating 80
Speed 6
Hit Points 100
Tactical Movement Rate 5
Damage 3-30
Experience NA
Morale 100%

Special Ability Slot 1: Quake – ½ Damage to all units adjacent to the unit hit.

Special Ability Slot 2 (None)

Cost: Special

Notes: ”oh my g….” (most commonly heard last words when an elemental attacks).

OoO


Here are some of the more common intersections, and their primary power attributes (these should give some indication of what the combination will allow/produce)

Air + Earth: Windstorms, tornadoes
Air + Water: Lightning, storms
Air + Fire: Drought
Earth + Water: Mud, landslides, flooding
Earth + Fire: Magma (volcanic eruption, tectonic activity)
Water + Fire: Steam
Spirit + Air: Creativity
Spirit + Earth: Strength
Spirit + Water: Healing
Spirit + Fire: Bravery

-=Vel=-

Last edited by Velociryx on 22-05-2002 at 22:02

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Very very nice!

I am quite excited about the way in which magic is shaping up in the game. Like everything else we are discussing it is very complicated ... I shudder to think about how many options the player will have once all the various models have been put into the game! That's great, but it is also scary .... it's also unlikely to happen any time soon, so we don't have to worry about that just yet.

I like the idea of the Elementals ... I thought at first that they would be overpowered, but since they are pretty expensive and only last for one turn at a time then it should be OK ... then can always be toned down during playtesting .... or toned up

In regard to Elementals ... what are we gonna do about summoning them from sigils that belong to more than one elemental school? I suppose the three main options are...

a) Summon the Elemental from the most dominant element in the game at that time .... the one with the most active sigils ... or perhaps the least dominant of the options?

b) Allow the player to choose which type of Elemental they want to summon. Should they be able to summon more than one from the same sigil on one turn? I think not ... thoughts?

c) (My favourite ) Allow the player to summon a special Gestalt Elemental ... which would be a combination of both or all of the elemental schools present in the sigil, but greater than the some of it's parts. The thinking would be that a Fire/Earth Elemental (perhaps called a Magma Elemental?) would have increased hit points and damage over a standard elemental and would possess all of the special abilites available to it's consituent elements. They would be awesome in battle, but even more awesomely expensive to summon. The player would have the option of summoning a solo and standard elemental instead if they wanted to.

I prefer option C because it's simply loads more fun and it nicely creates one way (you may think of more) that sigils for multiple elements could be made more powerful. Just imagine the Elemental that would be summoned from a 5-element sigil ... a Prismatic Elemental? You would probably have to sell your palace and your children in order to afford one, which might be counter productive in the long run ... but wouldn't it be fun?

Another bonus to multi-school Elementals: perhaps they should be made available for more than one turn. Perhaps one turn for each element that they are made from (ie. Magma Elemental alive for 2 turns, Prismatic Elemental alive for 5 turns)?

That's all I can think of for now.

This is cool.

(I bet I cross-posted with someone, didn't I?)

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Glad you're diggin' it, Stoo!

The elemental summoning part was something I added in on a whim as I was doing the re-write, and I found that I was really jazzed about it.

You may be right...they might prove to be under or overpowered for the cost, given the short duration of them, but very definately we want them to be absolute wreckin crews! (can you imagine if you find yourself really stretched thin, summoning up an earth elemental to send in alone against some enemy troops adjacent to you? And the spooky thing is, he'd prolly do some pretty severe damage before they scragged him!

I think that once you begin altering pure strain elements, you definately should not be able to summon a 'pure' Elemental any longer, and one of the advantages TO the purestrain elementals should be their cost-effectiveness.

You're thinking along the same lines as me though, with the notion of Magma Elementals, Lightning Elementals, and the like, when you begin combining "off" ley line strands with an Elemental sigil, but in addition to that, other spells should become available (say 2 new spells per ley line feeding into the sigil, each more powerful than the last...or some other rule of thumb as that).

All in all, that, combined with the religions we've got in place, should lead to...yeah...

-=Vel=-
PS: One other thought...add in a new magic wielding unit...the Elementalist, whose sole purpose is to study the sigil magics and make more efficient (cheaper?) use of them? Might be an interesting "fifth force" in the religious arena...the elements themselves.

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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
I think that once you begin altering pure strain elements, you definately should not be able to summon a 'pure' Elemental any longer, and one of the advantages TO the purestrain elementals should be their cost-effectiveness.


I see your point on this.

I suppose that this way the player would have to make the choice whether to try and connect up as many ley-lines as possible to their sigils to produce a small number of super-costly super-powered uber-beasts ... or stick to the standard elementals and have a (comparatively) larger number of them, even though they would be individually weaker.

And I think the idea of including multi-school spells is a must-have too. Should they be more powerful (and more expensive) than the standard spells, or just have unique effects? A bit of each would be good I suppose.

Nice.

Where there's options there's strategy.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Xactly where my brain is on it! A tradeoff between hyperconnecting every sigil you control and keeping a few pure to maintain a certain set of cheaper abilities.

(and likewise, you may find some really attractive spells in certain combinations...let's say you start with a fire sigil...add in earth, and get magma elementals. Add in air and get Efreets and a trio of really bada$$ spells that you just love.

Do you risk adding another ley line to it and cutting off the spells you've got?

The new configuration of the sigil will, no doubt, give you other spells, but...will they be as useful to you?

Also, we could do some interesting and unexpected things with the ORDER in which ley lines are connected....this could provide some unexpected player results....

"Where's my flood spell? Last time I added air and water to an earth sigil, one of my spells was flood!?" (cos last time, maybe he added water before he added air...or something...dunno)

-=Vel=-

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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Also, we could do some interesting and unexpected things with the ORDER in which ley lines are connected

"Where's my flood spell? Last time I added air and water to an earth sigil, one of my spells was flood!?" (cos last time, maybe he added water before he added air...or something...dunno)


I like that idea, but...

Interesting? Yes.
Unexpected? No.

That little speech by the player sounded more pi$$ed-off than interested ... ... everything like that should be in the Rules documentation I think, otherwise we're only gonna turn people off the game because it'll seem like the rules are working against them.
The rules manual for this game looks like it is gonna be HUGE! That'll be a fun job for Heliodorus or Lady Kalle or whoever does it when we get to that stage.

Helio's made his way over to our forums at pyromaniaks.net now ... hopefully we can get some Fate Card chat going on over here soon with some input from him ... the Fate Engine is scheduled for v0.2/v0.3? or something isn't it? I forget ... if it is though then we should start talking about it soon.

It'll be good to have Helio back on board ... we miss his ideas.

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It sounds good. It sounds very good. I am really liking this!

But yes, the combinations need to be either deterministic and listed, or randomly chosen from a stated set of probabilities (although, Common, Unusual and Rare will probably do for the levels of probability).

I'm not sure whether you intended it to be possible to only be able to summon an elemental nowhere near your battles. That might get a bit annoying, unless you could get it to a battle somehow - perhaps one of the pure-strain spells could be a limited teleporting ability for elementals of that strain?

cyclotron7 is offline cyclotron7
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My reply is coming, but no time now...

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This is shaping up to be *so* cool. Flattering that the old sigils are still in there, albeit in a much much groovier form now! Tapping into ley lines to power up the sigils - just fantastic!

Queries:

When a mage is used to gain control of a sigil, is he permanently lost, or just stuck in one place for a while and therefore vulnerable?
If so, does the sacrifice actually kill the mage, or simply merge him with the sigil?

I'm picturing a fantasy version of the SMAC transcendii, where the mages mind/spirit/whatever is transferred to the sigil in order to control it. In which case why not have merged mages generate a research point per turn or something, as they have a unique opportunity to study the magical forces of Candle'Bre in great depth. Also this need not be a one off - other mages could be transferred into the sigil to generate additional research points per turn.

A thought - sacrificing a mage could also be a requirement for casting the really potent spells. Sure these things are going to level mountains or whatever, but is the sacrifice of your arch disciple with x experience points *really* worth it?

Another query:

Probably far too early to tell, but how numerous are ley lines & magical focus points going to be? Only I was thinking that one way to reduce screen clutter would be to have the focus points and sigils actually on screen, and then to have an overlay map of the ley lines connecting them as well as any connections caused
by Calenders. This overlay could switched on or off according to player preference.

thoughts?

Rich.

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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
*snip*

Normally, sigils will only form when the two intersecting ley lines are of the same element (that is to say that under normal conditions, the intersection of a water line and a fire line will not result in the creation of a sigil), but as you have read above, there are artificial ways in which ley lines from two (or more) elements can be combined into a single sigil. When such combinations occur, they unlock an increasingly exotic series of powers (as you might guess, it is both extremely difficult and quite rare to see a sigil connected to all five elements, and the powers such a sigil might grant those who controlled it would be…almost beyond imagining (ed note: *evil grin* - which means we really gotta cook something good up for this one!)

-=Vel=-


Right - one overpowered spell idea for a sigil of the five powers.

Merwynnar's Dawn.

A deceptively peaceful name which belies its true power. Merwynnar's Dawn causes nothing less than the complete restructuring of the world from its most elemental parts upwards.

Effect: 4 provinces are entirely resculpted, existing buildings, troops and terrain features are cleared and replaced by a new randomly generated terrain.

Notes: Probably be easy to implement with an RMG (hence a commercial release spell). Possibility of new building placement as a side effect of the spell?? Much scope for Star Trek 'Genesis wave' style effects when the spell goes off.

Rich.

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Rich...I like the spell! And bonus cool points for naming it after the scholarly leader of the band of Wizards from the story!



-=Vel=-

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  Old Post 04-02-2003 20:14
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I wrote some posts in another thread, for avoid "linkazing" I just pasted them here:

------------------1------------------

About Magic:

Magic should be divided into 13 elements:

10 basic, or minor level, elements, here are they exposed with the opposite:

Water - Fire
Light - Darkness
Earth - Wind
Time - Stopness*
Electricity - Nature

*"Stopness" or Invariability causes the paralization of what happens, is just something that downs the entropy. Combined with water causes Ice. Is the representation of cold, absolut zero, etc...

2 complex, or medium level, elements, just are the mix of groups of 5 opposites that generates powerful spells, are VERY VERY rare:

Water, Nature, Light, Time and Earth are "Fullness"
Stopness, Darkness, Wind, Fire and Electricity are "Emptyness"

Emptyness reigns in the Void, this is, causes desintegration.
Fullness concentrates matter, origins gravity or complex systems.

Finally, the High Level element, the correct balance of the 10 basic:

Creation: Used for create without using an existing system of an element (this is, we don't need a fertile soil to create a Magic Mushroom, or an air atmosphere for a tornado).

Creation is very powerful, so its use should be forbidden except for small things.

------------------2------------------

MM, but seems that you simply divided it in 4 hermetic elements, could be great that an empire investigate ech element to obtain some spells, this is, minor spells with 1 to 4 mixes, medium 5 to 9 and high with 10. A "magic research" or "magic production" (with 10 different magic wells that should be bouilded in special tiles), with the combination of this production and the knowledge, you can do more and more powerful spells (or maintain enchantments to increase food production for example).

------------------/------------------

Ok, now let me explain a bit more.

An empire can have some tiles, each tile has 10 variables that go from 0 to 9, each one represents the presence of an element (10 elements).

0 is no presence
9 is near-total presence

Note that presence are values that added are 10, this is,
we can't have more (or less) than 10 presence points in a tile, and this should be divided for each element.

Tiles an reference for each element.

Desert - Light 4 , Fire 4, Earth 1, Wind 1
Swamp - Darkness 4, Water 2, Time 4
Jungle - Nature 5, Water 1, Time 5
Mountain - Wind 3, Electricity 3, Earth 4
Hill - Earth 5, Wind 2, Electricity 3
Tundra - Nature 2, Earth 1, Stopness 2, Wind 1
Glacier - Stopness 4, Water 3, Wind 1,
Grassland - Nature 2, Water 1, Wind 1, Time 1, Earth 2, Light 2, Darkness 1.
Plains - Nature 1, Fire 2, Wind 1, Stopness 1, Time 1, Earth 2, Darkness 1, Light 1.
Coastal tiles - + 2 water, -2 in the element/s with less presence/s.
River Tiles - +1 water, -1 in the element with less presence.
Water (floating wells?) - 5 water, 3 wind, 1 nature, 1 time.

Elemental Vectors (only 10 in all the world, and change randomly in time): 10 of one element.

Note: Elemental Vectors of Fullness emerge from planet core, Elemental Vectors of Voidness are attracted to planet by the Fullness and "enter" to the panet.

Voidness hasn't core, but can be concentrated by collectors (space technology... Mmm)

Creation vector: Is the universe itslef, can be build in the geographical center of universe If you find it, tell me plz!!


With this assignments, we can see that the less interesting areas for farms and cities are more mana producer, why? Simply because have more mana specialized sources than just a plains.

Mana Wells, should be only one element producer in starting technology, Mana Towers can obtain the mana of 5 elements (Fullness or Emptyness) while finally Mana Temple obatin all 10 (note: Mana Temples are extremly expensive).

Better advances can have a better perfomance in extraction, this is, x1.5, x2, x2.5, x3.... the production of
a tile. Note that presence is always INTEGER, so things like "1.49" is just 1, and "1.50" is 2.

What do you think about it?

Last edited by XarXo on 04-02-2003 at 20:25

 
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