11-05-2002 05:48									#1
	Speculation on the "feudal Japan" and "World War II" unit packs Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the XP info said it was including feudal japan and WWII unit packs. What do you think this is about? I would think that this would indicate that 2 scnearios included would use those unit packs, why else include them? I would've prefered an ancient Rome or Greece scenario, but perhaps they were bored with the old standards.

What do you think the units will be in each pack? I really have no idea what units would be in the Japan pack and have no idea what the scenario could be about.

	11-05-2002 07:11									#2
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a WW2 scenario based on the whole world (i hope they redo the standard world map) would be awesome, esp. if they allowed multiple UUs for each civ. German Panzer tanks / U Boats, Japanese Kamakzies / Submarine carriers etc.

it has great possibilities, but they could skip it and release ti earlier. i'm sure someoen on poly or CF could make ti in half the time for FREE

	11-05-2002 13:31									#3
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I think feudal Japan will have everything we've seen in Shogun totalwar : foot samurai, spearmen (Samurai Yari), light and heavy cavalry, warrior monks, archers, musketmen. It's also possible there are some units coming from the Japanese mythology (demons, gods etc.)

	11-05-2002 21:43									#4
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That's pretty much what I'm thinking; the sets will be a dozen or so units all from the same age and balanced to work with and against eachother. Several kinds of infantry, tanks, aircraft, etc. Same with the Japanese, like Spiffor said, a bunch of similar units much like Shogun. Maybe there will even be new techs for the scenarios too, so one can have two or three kinds of tanks and advance during the course of the war.

	12-05-2002 00:45									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay ... balanced to work with and against eachother... Maybe there will even be new techs for the scenarios too, so one can have two or three kinds of tanks and advance during the course of the war.

We can always hope

	12-05-2002 01:10									#6
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I wonder if the time scale will be different?

	12-05-2002 01:44									#7
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This fall/winter is not going to be a very social one for myself lol. Bill Gates' little box has many good games coming out for it this fall and now this, the Civ3 XP. What am I going to do?




BtW, I bought that little box about a month ago and it rocks.

	12-05-2002 04:28									#8
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"Little" Box?

Anyway, the WWII would probably be monthly like in civ2, and the Japanese seasonaly like in Shogun.

	12-05-2002 05:16									#9
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They might even impliment seasons into the gameplay...














Naaaaah, what am I thinking...

	12-05-2002 08:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay "Little" Box? Anyway, the WWII would probably be monthly like in civ2, and the Japanese seasonaly like in Shogun.

****, i was about to say the exact same thing, and i would have but i clicked to qupote this post instead of the other one

	12-05-2002 09:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay "Little" Box? Anyway, the WWII would probably be monthly like in civ2, and the Japanese seasonaly like in Shogun.

I think he was referring to the X-box. Dont' have one, but my friend does. Quite excellent graphics, played halo a bit as well as a football game (don't remember which) good system. PS2 has better variety of games, but X-box IMO has better graphics. Gamecube, havent' tried. too poor




Any guesses as to the time period in the Japan scenario, I know nothing about Japanese history. I know its feudal japan, but that means nothing to me. (damn merican schools!)

	12-05-2002 10:39									#12
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quote: I think he was referring to the X-box. Dont' have one, but my friend does. Quite excellent graphics, played halo a bit as well as a football game (don't remember which) good system. PS2 has better variety of games, but X-box IMO has better graphics. Gamecube, havent' tried. too poor

Yeah, I was referring to the X-Box. I've played all three of 'the systems', and I bought the X-Box because I thought it had the most potential. The only reason why the PS2 has more games is because it came out a year earlier than the X-Box. You should see the lineup of games the X-Box has coming out in the coming months. Including World Series Baseball coming out on the 21st of May...oh I how I can't wait for that game!

quote: They might even impliment seasons into the gameplay...

For scenario purposes this has to be an option...well month intervalling needs to be (will be) included at least. How else would a WW2 scenario work? 7 turns of a WW2 scenario would be really lame.

	12-05-2002 10:45									#13
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Erm, forgive me, I should have been more specific.

^Seasonal effects^

There, much better.

	12-05-2002 11:17									#14
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quote: ^Seasonal effects^

How would that work?

quote: Any guesses as to the time period in the Japan scenario

Basically, imgaine a middle ages scenario in a Japanese environment. Instead of knights, there will be samurais. Instead of Kings, there will be Warlords. Instead of castles, there will be umm...umm...Japanese buildings.

	12-05-2002 11:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Basically, imgaine a middle ages scenario in a Japanese environment. Instead of knights, there will be samurais. Instead of Kings, there will be Warlords. Instead of castles, there will be umm...umm...Japanese buildings.

ok, sounds cool. Sounds interesting, and hey, Civ3 is living up to that title of Educational Game of the Year.


Was there a lot of infighting during this time period? I take it that there was, or else a boring scenario. Any the history of the time?

	12-05-2002 11:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins How would that work?

Irrigated terrain becomes more productive in the fall, everything produces less food in the winter, less movement for troops, etc. This would all require some good re-working of how the whole system of Civ III works, so it's not very plausible.

	12-05-2002 11:27									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Irrigated terrain becomes more productive in the fall, everything produces less food in the winter, less movement for troops, etc. This would all require some good re-working of how the whole system of Civ III works, so it's not very plausible.

that sounds very cool, would make for some great scenarios, i.e. anything involving a Russian war, but you're right, probably too much of a change to the game.

	12-05-2002 12:58									#18
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quote: Irrigated terrain becomes more productive in the fall, everything produces less food in the winter, less movement for troops, etc. This would all require some good re-working of how the whole system of Civ III works, so it's not very plausible.

Yeah I don't think that is very likely. However, there were things like that in SMAC, such as rain patterns. I can't describe it too well, because I haven't played SMAC in a long time. Even when I did play SMAC, I didn't play it much, because I'm not into the whole space/fantasy scene.

quote: Was there a lot of infighting during this time period? I take it that there was, or else a boring scenario. Any the history of the time?

Actually I believe there was a lot of fighting during this time. Japan never fought much out of it's borders during it's history, except for a few occassions (one we most certainly know about), but I'm pretty sure Japan did have a lot of fighting inside it's borders during it's history. I could be wrong, though.

For some more info on how the scenario will play out, go read a review on the game Shogun: Total War.

That game is quite symbolic to me. Well, I was reading reviews on some games to buy and the two games I narrowed it down to were Shogun: Total War and Civ2. When I got to Best Buy I was really undecided in what game I was going to buy. After looking at both of the games a few times I was very close to buying Shogun. Since Shogun was $20 and Civ2 was $15, my dad, who was with me at the time, suggested that I buy Civ2 because it was cheaper, even though, I was going to be the one who was going to buy it. Well, I went ahead and listened to him and bought Civ2. The rest is history, of course after many many countless hours of playing Civ2. Maybe someday I will give Shogun a chance.

	12-05-2002 13:09									#19
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel ok, sounds cool. Sounds interesting, and hey, Civ3 is living up to that title of Educational Game of the Year. Was there a lot of infighting during this time period? I take it that there was, or else a boring scenario. Any the history of the time?

During the Muromachi Period (roughly mid 14th to late 16th centuries), the power of the Emperor and his court in Kyoto was relatively weak, giving the Daimyo (local warlords--equivalent in rank to a Count in European terms--there were up to 200 or so of them at times) free reign to make war with each other. This warfare was so intense that the latter half of this era is referred to the Sengoku (Warring States) Period. Probably the guys at Firaxis will have about a dozen of the major factions represented in the game.

	12-05-2002 13:22									#20
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I think it's just a graphic pack so that we can make scenarios. Given the work it is to draw a whole new leaderhead, I don't think thay'll include a complete modpack with Japanese factions.

	12-05-2002 15:24									#21
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Hmmm... WWII...

Destroyer, Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Battle Cruiser, Battleship. CVL, CVA... Bismark, KGV, Iowa, Yamato...

Light Tank, Medium tank, Heavy Tank. Panther, Tiger, King Tiger. T34, KV85, Joseph Stalin. Grant, Sherman, Pershing. Matilda, Valentine, Churchill....

Fighter, Fighter Bomber, Jet Fighter. Light Bomber, Medium Bomber, Heavy Bomber. Huricane, Spitfire, P47, P51, Yak, Mig, Me109, FW190, Zero, Jake. B17, B29. Liberator. Ju87...

Swordfish, Dauntless, Betty, Nell, arrrgh... It is an ecstasy of expectancy.

Game on!

	12-05-2002 20:23									#22
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Oh, I knew you were talking about the X-Box up there, I was just joking about your use of the word "little" to describe it when, from what I've seen, it - and its controller - are quite large

	12-05-2002 20:28									#23
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Sorry to rain on your parade Notyoueither, but I don't think they'll have THAT many units in the WWII pack Maybe a unique fighter and bomber per side, and a tank or two that can be created through upgrades. That unt list sounds great for a more detailed WWII scenario on a more tactical level.

	12-05-2002 22:19									#24
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Yes, I would have to agree, that's a few more units than I expect. Besides, the Panther and Tiger are too similar... I would want one of the early war German tanks instead, like the Pz Kpfw III ausf h or maybe j. Then the Panther, and then... hmmm, you have to make it a tank that actually had an EFFECT on the war. I suppose Tiger II is acceptable though for a late-game heavy tank.

	13-05-2002 00:22									#25
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Spiffor, take your evil ways elsewhere. ...........

quote: Oh, I knew you were talking about the X-Box up there, I was just joking about your use of the word "little" to describe it when, from what I've seen, it - and its controller - are quite large

You know what, I had a feeling that it was you meant. The X-Box by no means is little, but I like my bulky giant.

NYE, I would expect no more than 8 units for each 'unit pack'. Oh no Spiffor has contaminated me with his evilness.

	13-05-2002 05:55									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Irrigated terrain becomes more productive in the fall, everything produces less food in the winter, less movement for troops, etc. This would all require some good re-working of how the whole system of Civ III works, so it's not very plausible.

Well, it wouldn't require too much extra work. All that is needed is the ability for rules to be swapped in-game and the terrain graphics and units graphics which can be swapped around.

All of this has been done in Civ2 by scenario makers without any recoding of the game. So if Firaxis gives us more flexibility in the editor, than this could be achieved in Civ3 as well. (As for the Civ2 scenarios I am of course referring to the all-time classic Red Front by Captain Nemo/ Alex the Magnificent)

	13-05-2002 21:43									#27
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Techwins :
8 ? Yeah, I found someone even more evil than me ! I would have thought 16-20 !
About feudal Japan, I wonder if they will make the ninja, I suppose so, because nijas are so popular, esp. among Dan Magahas. But I wonder what they'll do. Spying ala Civ2 maybe ?

	13-05-2002 21:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by sgrig Well, it wouldn't require too much extra work. All that is needed is the ability for rules to be swapped in-game and the terrain graphics and units graphics which can be swapped around. All of this has been done in Civ2 by scenario makers without any recoding of the game. So if Firaxis gives us more flexibility in the editor, than this could be achieved in Civ3 as well. (As for the Civ2 scenarios I am of course referring to the all-time classic Red Front by Captain Nemo/ Alex the Magnificent)

Hopefully the new editor will be powerful enough to do that kind of thing... I'll cross my fingers, but I won't count on it. With the way the rest of things in Civ have been going, I'm not too optimistic.

	13-05-2002 22:12									#29
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX a WW2 scenario based on the whole world (i hope they redo the standard world map) would be awesome, esp. if they allowed multiple UUs for each civ. German Panzer tanks / U Boats, Japanese Kamakzies / Submarine carriers etc. it has great possibilities, but they could skip it and release ti earlier. i'm sure someoen on poly or CF could make ti in half the time for FREE

hi ,

its more then just a mod , .........one would think that you would know , .... , .......and if you can do it for free , .....firaxis still needs some people , .....

have a nice day

	13-05-2002 22:46									#30
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It's still amazing to me that some of you have no clue what scenarios are about, as what have been done for years in Civ2. Don't you know that nearly every custom scenario that has been developed included custom civs, each with perhaps dozens of unique units??? Heck, even the simplistic WW2 scenario that first came with the FW (or CiC?) expansion pack had ALL unique units for the Axis, Allies and Neutrals. This is not to mention the great Nemo's RF and SF scenarios where there were over 100 unique, accurate units, all with beautifully detailed graphics and attributes.

But not only do most custom scenarios have all unique units, but custom maps (in many cases), a complete re-do of the tech tree (if that's appropriate for the time period) and of course, events to trigger just about anything. For example, an event can change the graphics of a tile (or all of the tiles for that matter), so you can have "seasonal effects". You can adjust the turn length a month (or shorter, I think). These all have been standard elements to Civ2 scenario creation for many years now. Before you speculate on the Civ3 scenarios, please learn what have been done since 1997-8 in the Civ2 scenario world.