11-05-2002 15:41									#1
	America blocks yet another UN treaty Enter the AD-FREE zone

This time, it's a new Children's Rights Treaty. Like in 1989, when the US and Somalia as only world countries refused to sign the treaty, the same is happening this time.



How many treaties has the US blocked/not-signed/not-ratified since Bush was elected? Way too many

	11-05-2002 16:12									#2
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What's in the treaty?

	11-05-2002 16:18									#3
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things the US doesn't agree with: for minors: right on sex-ed, right on abortion, ban on capital punishment, ban on life imprisonment. probably some other things too. have to look it up.

NOTE: only for minors. this isn't about a total ban on capital punishment, only on a ban for capital punishment on kids.

The convention has been ratified by 191 countries -- all nations except Somalia and the United States. President Bush's administration opposed language saying the convention is "the standard" for children's rights, because the United States is not a party, and diplomats said the text was reluctantly watered down.

	11-05-2002 16:44									#4
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Post a summary of the treaty (or the treaty itself), please. Without being able to evaluate it for ourselves, we cannot make an informed judgement.

	11-05-2002 16:53									#5
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Edit: Oh, it's a new treaty, not The Convention on the Rights of the Child..

	11-05-2002 17:07									#6
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I'm unsure what it is exactly, but it is related to the Convention on the Rights of the Child. I got this from local papers.

here's a CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/11/un...t.ap/index.html

Hmmm. it's an action plan to fullfill promises made in the 89 convention. The US has blocked several passages in the action plan, and has yet to ratify the convention itself (as only nation in the world).

Somalia signed the convention this week and is expected to ratify it -- which will leave the United States as the lone holdout.

	11-05-2002 17:45									#7
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How embarressing for us.

	11-05-2002 17:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The convention has been ratified by 191 countries -- all nations except Somalia and the United States.

I thought there were only 192 nations on Earth. Has there been any new recently?

	11-05-2002 17:50									#9
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Apparently you were wrong. It seems to be 193, not including unrecognized countries like the Dnieper (or is Dniester?) Republic, Osvestia, and other little break aways in the Former USSR.

	11-05-2002 17:51									#10
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Nope, all my sources say 192. (world map on my wall with list of countries, atlas with list of countries etc etc)

	11-05-2002 17:52									#11
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there must have been some new one created... Dagestan, Chechnya and Kosovo sur estill belong to their mothers, so that can't be it... but then what happened that might have created a new nation in the past 5 years? East Timor?

	11-05-2002 18:00									#12
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guess so. But I don't think they ratified it yet.

and Dagestan is not breaking away. yet.


oh, and about the subject : another UN treaty that no country gives a damn about .

	11-05-2002 18:03									#13
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Go Bush.

	11-05-2002 18:09									#14
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I heard that the US had a problem with the passage that banned capital punishment for minors. Go Bush!

	11-05-2002 18:10									#15
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oh , and chegitz, it's the dneister.

	11-05-2002 18:11									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti another UN treaty that no country gives a damn about .

Then why has it been signed by 191 countries?

	11-05-2002 18:20									#17
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That people sign anything doesn't mean that it have any meaning for anyone....

I think the US position is that they don't want to sign that kinds of agreement, not that they are actually planning to break the essence of them. In a chase like this i can easily accept that. The US is afterall following that UN treaty better than a lot of the countries that have signed it.

I'm much more annoyed and troubled when it's about treaties that could have a meaning. Like pollution threaties, how are we to cut pollution when the biggest economy doesn't? That gives the american economy an advantage and is hurtful for everyone in the long run.

	11-05-2002 18:25									#18
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well, if you see Muslim countries signing women's equality treaties it won't really mean that they'll really start tackling the issue of 'family pride' murders. The UN charter , to which all UN members supposedly oblige, states also certain criterias on healthcare , and education, which are , of course, not obeyed. If you really going to be a pain about it , I'll dig, but please ,read the charter yourself, and think of all the signatories to it .

	11-05-2002 18:32									#19
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'Family pride'-murders are not a muslim tradition...

	11-05-2002 18:37									#20
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I am not saying that they're are only a muslim tradition. but most other people seem to have grown out of it.

	11-05-2002 18:43									#21
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No, it's not a muslim tradition, period. It has (hardly) anything to do with Islam. As for 'growing out of it' beating up or killing people because you can is going on everywhere.

	11-05-2002 19:30									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus things the US doesn't agree with: for minors: right on sex-ed, right on abortion, ban on capital punishment, ban on life imprisonment. probably some other things too. have to look it up. NOTE: only for minors. this isn't about a total ban on capital punishment, only on a ban for capital punishment on kids. The convention has been ratified by 191 countries -- all nations except Somalia and the United States. President Bush's administration opposed language saying the convention is "the standard" for children's rights, because the United States is not a party, and diplomats said the text was reluctantly watered down.

This sounds like an utterly useless treaty!

The US doesn't have life imprisonment or capital punishment for minors, come to think of it, I don't know of any country that does. Can anyone name an example of child execution or life imprisonment?

The US could not sign a treaty mandating sex-education, since the education of children in the US is under the jurisdiction of state governments. The US could not force a curricullum on the states, the Supreme Court would shoot it down.

Mandatory abortion rights for kids? Most African nations, Islamic nations and many South American nations still prohibit abortion, so what is the point of this provision? If the representatives of these countries signed this document it was with the utmost hypocrisy! Oh, and many of these nations fall well short of providing universal education.

How about something useful like setting a minimum age for inducting minors into the armed forces?

	11-05-2002 19:34									#23
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I guess its mostly about the death penalty for minors issue. IMO a bit rediculous You are mature enough with 14 to get executed but you have to be 21 to drink alcohol in the US. Funny no?

	11-05-2002 19:43									#24
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Dr. S--

You haven't heard of minors standing trial for murder, being given life sentences? Seriously? I think there is at least one case of a 17-year-old being sentenced to death...

	11-05-2002 19:45									#25
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Let's all monitor how this treaty is implemented in Saudi Arabia.

-

	11-05-2002 19:49									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 I guess its mostly about the death penalty for minors issue. IMO a bit rediculous You are mature enough with 14 to get executed but you have to be 21 to drink alcohol in the US. Funny no?

Not really. We'd like to spare the 14 year old from drinking alcohol and becoming so inebriated that he does something that might earn execution.

	11-05-2002 19:50									#27
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Maybe if Bush learned to spell his own name he'd be able to sign some of those darn treaties...

	11-05-2002 19:55									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Dr. S-- You haven't heard of minors standing trial for murder, being given life sentences? Seriously? I think there is at least one case of a 17-year-old being sentenced to death...

Teenagers tried as adults are declared to have the capability of forming the intent of an adult prior to trial, so technically they are not minors. What was the UN definition of minor? Seventeen is certainly arguably at the border.

Like I said, if they want to help kids they could set a minimum age for military service, to say somewhere between 16 to 18. They didn't did they? I wonder why.

	11-05-2002 20:01									#29
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The US doesn't even want to ban land mines and nuclear tests. Say no more!

	11-05-2002 20:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Maybe if Bush learned to spell his own name he'd be able to sign some of those darn treaties...

You do understand that Bush isn't the one that has the final say on treaties right? Or are you just joining in on the latest anti-american circle jerk for the fun of it.