13-05-2002 21:31									#31
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quote: Tell us your theories on where it will end Marcus.

Formal annexation of the westbank, and perhaps gaza.

quote: And while your at it, explain why most of the Pals(or most of the Arab world for that matter) still doesn't recognize Israel.

I'm sure you have also heard of the Saudi peace plan, which includes the formal recognision of Israel by all/most arab nations.

And most of the Pals? Arafat and the PLO do recognize Israel. Sure the people in the street don't agree, but they aren't the ones in power.

	13-05-2002 21:52									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Formal annexation of the westbank, and perhaps gaza. I'm sure you have also heard of the Saudi peace plan, which includes the formal recognision of Israel by all/most arab nations. And most of the Pals? Arafat and the PLO do recognize Israel. Sure the people in the street don't agree, but they aren't the ones in power.

The only thing they recongize Israel as is a target. If as you say the Arabs recognize Israel, why are the Saudies offering it in a their peace plan? It would appear that the Arabs, at this point in time, do not recognize Israel.

	13-05-2002 21:58									#33
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Mobius

quote: THAT is why there is an election in the Netherlands this week! Some might say that if it were not for Srebrenica Pim Fortuyn might not have been assassinated...

Hu?
The election is regular. No changes made. The government did the smart move to quit only weeks bevor the election.
Please elobarate why you think Pim Fortuyns assasination has anything to do with Srebrenica. I cant see the link.

	13-05-2002 22:04									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 Mobius quote: THAT is why there is an election in the Netherlands this week! Some might say that if it were not for Srebrenica Pim Fortuyn might not have been assassinated... Hu? The election is regular. No changes made. The government did the smart move to quit only weeks bevor the election. Please elobarate why you think Pim Fortuyns assasination has anything to do with Srebrenica. I cant see the link.

I thought these elections were called as a direct result of the Dutch government's resignation over their handling of the Srebrenica massacre...

Without their resignation, there would have been no elections and Fortuyn would not have become as popular so soon and deemed to be needed to be assassinated by some weirdo. OK it's a tenuous link and I was having a bit of fun...

	13-05-2002 22:12									#35
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quote: I thought these elections were called as a direct result of the Dutch government's resignation over their handling of the Srebrenica massacre...

No. the elections were already scheduled before all of that happened.

	13-05-2002 22:37									#36
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Saint, you're exceptionally trolling.


And no, neither arabs nor the PA recognize Israel.

The PLO charter which calls for war against Israel in order to free whole of "palestine" wasn't legally cancelled.

The PA schoolbooks, show no recognition of Israel, but rather refer to the whole area as palestine, and to Jews they refer as "evil sons of satan, european colonists".

www.edume.org

	13-05-2002 22:40									#37
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quote: And no, neither arabs nor the PA recognize Israel.

they will if Israel signs the, US backed, Saudi proposed peace treaty.

Funny that you don't say anything about the topic though, just a side issue.

	13-05-2002 22:46									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus they will if Israel signs the, US backed, Saudi proposed peace treaty. Funny that you don't say anything about the topic though, just a side issue.

So your saying that they don't recognize them now


And you condemn the Likud party for what the Arabs already do?

	13-05-2002 22:48									#39
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quote: And you condemn the Likud party for what the Arabs already do?

since when do two wrongs make a right?

	13-05-2002 22:49									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus since when do two wrongs make a right?

So you will agree that Palastinian terrorism is unacceptable and that they must stop those acts or face international punishment?

	13-05-2002 22:56									#41
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I did say things about that topic.

It's a scam. - it says nothing new.

It contains the refugees issue, which is suicidal and can't ever be implemented.

It also demands a one sided withdrawal, as a pre-condition, without discussing any terms and arrangements.

Furthermore, when Israeli government, both on official and non-official levels tried to contact the Saudis, they refused.

	13-05-2002 23:00									#42
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Saudi Plan = Public Relations for European audience

	13-05-2002 23:01									#43
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don't be silly, Spray... you can hardly claim we're the ones that are blind of unilateral views

	13-05-2002 23:05									#44
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quote: So you will agree that Palastinian terrorism is unacceptable and that they must stop those acts or face international punishment?

Yep, but the same goes for Israel's actions.

quote: I did say things about that topic.

And on the topic of the denial of a Palestinian state by the Likud?

quote: Saudi Plan = Public Relations for European audience

Oh really? Last I heard Bush supported it as well. Remind me, from what European country was Bush again?

	13-05-2002 23:10									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion don't be silly, Spray... you can hardly claim we're the ones that are blind of unilateral views

I didn't say that. I said the plan was meant for the European audience. If you buy into it or not is entirely up to Europeans. Some will and some won't.

	13-05-2002 23:11									#46
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Well, it sounded like that. Now what does it make appear so?

(I certainly hope "don't be silly" doesn't include an implication... it certainly does in German )

	13-05-2002 23:12									#47
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quote: I didn't say that. I said the plan was meant for the European audience. If you buy into it or not is entirely up to Europeans. Some will and some won't.

It convinced Bush and Powell.

	13-05-2002 23:14									#48
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did it include an offer about how much land should go to the Pals

*opens a movement PRO-30%*

	13-05-2002 23:17									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Oh really? Last I heard Bush supported it as well. Remind me, from what European country was Bush again?

Sometimes Bush can be just as stupid or uncaring about the situation as anyone. You won't ever here me say the man is a saint.

Lets start hearing some anger about Pal. terrorism them Marcus instead of well, if only Israel would do this and if only Israel will do that?

What exactly are the compromises for the Arabs in the peace plan? Oh thats right, normal relations with Isreal. As long as it's a smaller Israel with lots and lots of Palasitians inside it's borders.

Why doesn't Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt want Pal. living in their countries?

	13-05-2002 23:17									#50
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quote: did it include an offer about how much land should go to the Pals

yeah. '67 borders I think.

	13-05-2002 23:17									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Tolls Sava: "40 years ago the Albanian population in Kosovo was 20 percent. " Rubbish...The Albanian population of Kosovo was about 2/3rds after WW1, in other words a majority. This remained pretty much the case until after WW2, when their percentage began to increase. Where did you get 40% from??

!946 Yugoslavian Almanac

	13-05-2002 23:18									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus It convinced Bush and Powell.

The two bastards are looking for the easy way out. Hopefully they won't be as willing as SOME in Europe seem to be.

	13-05-2002 23:19									#53
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quote: Lets start hearing some anger about Pal. terrorism them Marcus instead of well, if only Israel would do this and if only Israel will do that?

terrorism is bad, arafat is bad, killing innocent people is bad.

state-terrorism is bad, sharon is bad, killing innocent people is bad.

	13-05-2002 23:21									#54
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quote: The two bastards are looking for the easy way out.

Tell me, what's your suggestion?

	13-05-2002 23:22									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus terrorism is bad, arafat is bad, killing innocent people is bad. state-terrorism is bad, sharon is bad, killing innocent people is bad.

So I expect you have no further need to make Mid East threads now.


You may move along now and continue your anti-Bush threads.

	13-05-2002 23:24									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Tell me, what's your suggestion?

For everyone to stay the hell out of it and let the Israelies and Pal work it out. As long as one side thinks that they will have benifactors on the outside they will continue to press the hard line.

	13-05-2002 23:25									#57
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that's bull, I'm sorry... that way it has been going on forever... besides, the west only interfered because Israel was short before being f*cked

	13-05-2002 23:32									#58
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quote: For everyone to stay the hell out of it and let the Israelies and Pal work it out.

bombing eachother until only one remains standing?

	13-05-2002 23:34									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion that's bull, I'm sorry... that way it has been going on forever... besides, the west only interfered because Israel was short before being f*cked

No, it has been going on forever because you had outside Arab countries using the pal(who they never liked anyway) as a way to bleed Israel because they were too week to actually do anything themselves. Now you have the Pals, believing that Europe and the world community is on their side so they think they can causually commit murder and get away with it.

My plan

Arab countries--stay the hell out of it
US-stay the hell out of it
Europe-stay the hell out of it
UN-stay the hell out of it
Rest of the World--stay the hell out of it

They will only want peace if it is their best interest to. Right now neither side has any interests in peace.

	13-05-2002 23:34									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov The PA schoolbooks, show no recognition of Israel, but rather refer to the whole area as palestine, and to Jews they refer as "evil sons of satan, european colonists".

What percentage from the jews in Israel moved there in the last 60 years (or are decendants of those people?

Think the palestinians do have a point there