14-05-2002 20:34									#61
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Nothing wrong with ****ing, it's healthy and good for society, se other thread by boddy about it

You can say what you want about my 'people' since I'm not a nationalistic chauvinist that uses over 2000 year old historical anecdotes to do something about my own insecurity

	14-05-2002 20:41									#62
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just explaining the obvious.


and something more before I go.

if you were remotely informed you should know that the term barbarian refers to people who do not speak greek and has nothing to do with race.

people whose language sounds like :bar, bar, bar" to greeks

have a nice day from the nationalistic chauvinistic commie nazi insecure person that is me.

at least get your facts straight next time.

	14-05-2002 20:44									#63
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check PM please, paitkis...

	14-05-2002 20:46									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Keep in mind that while Greece did come up with democracy, those early "democracies" were limited to what, 10% of the population?

so are the modern democracies. 5% of the people rule, the rest run around and shop.

	14-05-2002 20:46									#65
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 any way i'm outta here for while keep your bashing coming i'll be around later

Umm, no intent to bash from me. You were acting strangely, and I pointed it out. I also pointed out a small flaw in a particular argument you made. That's not bashing, so far as I know.

-Arrian

	14-05-2002 20:46									#66
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I do know what barbarian means...

Hey, paikitis I'm just pulling your leg. I said something about Alexander the Great and you went ballistic and at the same time showed a quite a unbalanced view of Greecian history and heritage. I just couldn't help but to use that weakness to make a little fun of you at your expence.

	14-05-2002 20:50									#67
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso so are the modern democracies. 5% of the people rule, the rest run around and shop.

Ok, probably true, but the shoppers do have the right to vote. Significant difference, IMHO. Though we've gotta work on that whole "customer is always right" thing.

I wasn't putting down ancient Greece. Far from it. I was just puzzled by Paiktis' string of posts (you did go ballistic, man)... and played devil's advocate with one of them.

-Arrian

	14-05-2002 20:51									#68
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Actually from what I remember, Alexander was supposed to be a pretty generous conqueror, giving concessions for the family of those who died in battle, even those he had conquered. I think he was quite keen on keeping his empire without having to be heavily reinforced. Better to make friends than enemies when not necessary.

	14-05-2002 20:55									#69
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Yeah the shoppers have the right to vote, Pepsi or Coca Cola!

	14-05-2002 21:25									#70
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I go for Pepsi.
Also Alexander tG destroyed the persian Capital, Persepolis. Got drunk and lighted it up.

	14-05-2002 22:56									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin I do know what barbarian means... Hey, paikitis I'm just pulling your leg. I said something about Alexander the Great and you went ballistic and at the same time showed a quite a unbalanced view of Greecian history and heritage. I just couldn't help but to use that weakness to make a little fun of you at your expence.

and just what were these allegded inconsistencies and this unbalanced view of greek history and heritage? mind sharing them with me?


you just went on trolling me instead of replying to me on what I corrected you.

you also seem to have a problem with people who are correcting you on some points and think that they do it out of pride of their history.

actually I think that the very concept of taking pride on one's history is repulsive to you. (FYI: that does not mean that one does not see the negatives or that he cares discussing it at any given time or that he is nationalistic).

I do not have to share your opinions or indeed values on any matter. If I don't I'd appreciate it if you did not troll but answer me otherwise I reserve the right to go controllably and catharticly ballistic.

something else on technicalities: i speak greek you don't. as long as this stays as it is, i can call you a barbarian to my "chauvinistic's" heart's content and i'm historically legal
and this hasn't got to do with the fact that i'm greek and you're not.

Arrian,
you didn't oppose something I said and I didn't oppose something you said. Check the thread and realize it for yourself.


laurentius,
the signifying difference between Alxenader the Great and his contemporaries was that unlike them he did not destroy places of worship and cultural value of the peoples he conquered.

Can you say the same about assyrians or persians or even more "modern" peoples?

the burning of Persepolis was the looting of the source of warfare, suffering and occupation of asian minor greek cities for centuries by the persians.

there is a word for that: pay-back and not even mortals proclaimed to gods can escape it it seems (especially when the riches were so great )

this does not take away anything about respect for cultural integrity of the people alexander conquered.


at that time the first jkob of conqeurors was to desotry all cultural signs of the people they conquered so to ERASE their sense of history as a peoples and ultimately assimilate them more easily.


orange apologies too

	14-05-2002 23:47									#72
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paiktis, you really can speak out of your arse at times

	14-05-2002 23:48									#73
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only when taunted to

actually it is apparent that if someone takes pride in his mythomotors (that are apparent ALL OVER THE WORLD) and if he is, fates forbit, greek, it puts people off. too bad.

actually I got pissed by the constant dissin'

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 14-05-2002 at 23:54

	14-05-2002 23:55									#74
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Zobo you basterd perv, you probably would try and take a peak up Lady libertys dress


Oh and would the statue be naked like the orignal? Ships pass under the testicles!?

	14-05-2002 23:57									#75
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can you imagine the ship accidents that would happen

	15-05-2002 00:00									#76
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Depends how big is nuts are now doesnt it?

Back then ships werent very large, no problems. Or it could be drawbridge. Colossus spilts in two when a big ship comes in.

	15-05-2002 00:04									#77
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ouch

	15-05-2002 00:10									#78
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Anyway, I think its a great idea. If I ever went to Europe with time on my hands, that would be a MUST see. Along with the Colisuem.

Last edited by faded glory on 15-05-2002 at 00:17

	15-05-2002 00:12									#79
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He could have a big penis that gates the entrance to the harbour. When flacid, it will be down blocking the entrance, until a ship comes and then arousal occurs. Great idea, and would provide hours of amusement for tourists

	15-05-2002 00:18									#80
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just as long as it is sctructuraly secure and the enormous penis doesn't suddently fall on the heads of some unfortunate sailors.

	15-05-2002 00:19									#81
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The kurds are gonna think thats real scary. A guy with a sword and torch standing over there harbor pointing at them.


lol provost

	15-05-2002 00:39									#82
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Arrian's right. The Colossus was downed after standing only one hundred years. It fell smack dab into the bay, but divers somehow managed to raise it, piece by piece, and they brought it up onto shore and built a temple to Helios (the sun god that the Colossus portrayed) around it. The Turks arrived in, I think the 700s, and, as usual, set to destroy every bit of culture they could find. The Colossus was sent off as scrap. It's odd that, as the Turks or a Muslim bunch seem to have destroyed or attempted to destroy several of the wonders at one point or another. The Pharos was a lucky one. It was just turned into a mosque. The Statue of Zeus was vandalized, the temple burned down. The tomb of Halicarnisuss was also destroyed by Turks. The stinkers even took a shot at the Great Pyramids, ripping off the limestone casing of the greatest of the three. Even more recently, our old buds the smelly old Taliban came up with a plan...failed of course...the blow the things up! Those poor wonders!

History: The Turks weren't as prolific as you imagine.
the staute lay in fragments for many years so when the Arabs arrived, they simply took the fragments and sold them.

The spinx was damaged by the French. I don't remember anything about the pyrimids being shot at. Though it is possible.

the statue of Zeus was originally damaged by earthquake and fire. It was moved from the temple by Greeks IIRC where it was later destroyed.

The tomb of Halicarnisuss

quote: For 16 centuries, the Mausoleum remained in good condition until an earthquake caused some damage to the roof and colonnade. In the early fifteenth century, the Knights of St John of Malta invaded the region and built a massive crusader castle. When they decided to fortify it in 1494, they used the stones of the Mausoleum. By 1522, almost every block of the Mausoleum had been disassembled and used for construction.

One interesting note. some of sculptures found their way to London.

It seems that mother nature can be credited with most of the destruction of the Seven Wonders. That and good old fashioned "lets use the stones from that building" to buld our house/fort/street.

	15-05-2002 00:42									#83
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Anyway, I think its a great idea. If I ever went to Europe with time on my hands, that would be a MUST see. Along with the Colisuem.

The Colisuem is great but all in all, I found the Northern part of Italy with it's natural beauty far better. Rome is dirty and over crowded.

	15-05-2002 00:45									#84
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 and just what were these allegded inconsistencies and this unbalanced view of greek history and heritage? mind sharing them with me?

1) That Alexander the great was some kind of angel against other cultures and that was the result of the unique culture, 2) that Greeks in some way would be immune against elitism just because of a short time of ancient democracy while there's a clear and simple fact that you had a fascist regime three decades ago. That what I call unbalanced.

quote: you just went on trolling me instead of replying to me on what I corrected you.

Yeah, you interpeted a general statement by me to be universal in all chases, i trolled it of and you went nuts. Called my arguments pathetic (it was a troll!!!) etc.

quote: you also seem to have a problem with people who are correcting you on some points and think that they do it out of pride of their history.

Considering the way you did it and what had been earlier stated by you in this thread i hardly think that was a totally absurd asumption. At the same time some turk-bashing was going on.

quote: actually I think that the very concept of taking pride on one's history is repulsive to you. (FYI: that does not mean that one does not see the negatives or that he cares discussing it at any given time or that he is nationalistic).

Yes, I can agree that I don't find much nice in people bragging about their own heritage. I considering it to be about the same as someone bragging about his or her parents, somewhat pointless and pathetic. The way you acted you surely didn't seem to take the negative parts of the history into acount (the stuff about demos was just BS, surely you must see that). I found it to be a nice opportunity to pull you leg.

and yes, feel free to call me a barbarian anytime!

	15-05-2002 00:47									#85
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yeah rome is dirty and overcrowded like athens.

and its antiquities left me dissapointed when compared to the athenian ones.

although colloseum was impressive.

i like italy for its rennesance mostly.

but OTOH i also got a feeling of the "blending" of greek and roman scultpure and architecture in rome which was also nice.

	15-05-2002 00:53									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin 1) That Alexander the great was some kind of angel against other cultures and that was the result of the unique culture

alexander was not an angel but he did not destroy cultural hotspots. simple do you get it now?

hellenic culture and the first notion of nation wide identity was first created after the first defeat of persia, in Greece (maceodnia attika peloponese theba aegean islands etc) got that too?

("it was not the athenians that defeated persia but all of hellas" )

quote: , 2) that Greeks in some way would be immune against elitism just because of a short time of ancient democracy while there's a clear and simple fact that you had a fascist regime three decades ago. That what I call unbalanced.

that democracy by definition goes against elitism. that greeks are to the point of nausea and counter productiveness saturated with the ideals of democracy

quote: Yeah, you interpeted a general statement by me to be universal in all chases, i trolled it of and you went nuts. Called my arguments pathetic (it was a troll!!!) etc.

missed me here.

quote: Considering the way you did it and what had been earlier stated by you in this thread i hardly think that was a totally absurd asumption. At the same time some turk-bashing was going on.

that WHAT was an absurd assumption?
try to make your points clear.

quote: and yes, feel free to call me a barbarian anytime!

since historic accuracy is so important to you (even if you do not serve it) then yes you're a barbarian in contrast to me.

	15-05-2002 00:55									#87
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Dont get me wrong. the Roman sites were impressive. They just kind of left me with ok. I saw them now. What else do we do?

And you want a dirty city. Try Venice.

	15-05-2002 00:58									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Dont get me wrong. the Roman sites were impressive. They just kind of left me with ok. I saw them now. What else do we do? And you want a dirty city. Try Venice.

venice smelled!

but it was nice especially those flower covered balconies over the canals... ah...

2 things that also got my attention:

the bridge of the devil
the bridge of the greeks
(no relation)

	15-05-2002 01:06									#89
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I can't back this up and I don't have figures, but I think there are more Japanese tourists in Venice than there are Italians.

Although there was a nice little bar tucked away from the main tourist traps that served very good beer and had very nice looking waitress

	15-05-2002 01:08									#90
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hey Spray!
I went to McDonalds' in Venice too

(honest!)

(they were cheap )


but I went in august and the humidity combined with the heat killed me
(not advisable time to visit )