15-05-2002 01:16									#91
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 hey Spray! I went to McDonalds' in Venice too (honest!) (they were cheap )

The guy was in Italy and he went to McDonalds. And he talks of culture...

-Arrian

	15-05-2002 01:18									#92
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 alexander was not an angel but he did not destroy cultural hotspots. simple do you get it now?

Yes, fine. I can accept that without problems. The problem was really that you took my general statement on tendencies of counquerors and tried to disprove it with a single greek example.

quote: hellenic culture and the first notion of nation wide identity was first created after the first defeat of persia, in Greece (maceodnia attika peloponese theba aegean islands etc) got that too?

Yeah yeah, you don't have to give me all that I'm perfectly up to date with the origins of Alexander and his father unfortunate wedding in macedonia, Darius III and so forth.

quote: that democracy by definition goes against elitism. that greeks are to the point of nausea and counter productiveness saturated with the ideals of democracy

That's just BS, Greeks are in general terms no better or worse than any other people. Greecians are not in any way per definition and by heritage diffent in that aspect. It's in fact an absurd statement.

quote: missed me here.

Quite simple, I stated that an argument about conqueror hardly have to be true in every instance as all events are unique. As you might have missed out. I never in said that Alexander the Great was a cultural-vandal.

quote: that WHAT was an absurd assumption? try to make your points clear.

Dito, to you as you have made quite a few already.

quote: since historic accuracy is so important to you (even if you do not serve it) then yes you're a barbarian in contrast to me.

It might have gone over you head but that was again not a serious remark, although yes I might be a barbarian in the same way as an idiot per definiton is anyone not interested in politics etc.

	15-05-2002 01:43									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Yes, fine. I can accept that without problems. The problem was really that you took my general statement on tendencies of counquerors and tried to disprove it with a single greek example.

Since it was the most notable exception regarding size of conquest/ principles used for the conquested people I do not see why I should not mention it.

quote: Yeah yeah, you don't have to give me all that I'm perfectly up to date with the origins of Alexander and his father unfortunate wedding in macedonia, Darius III and so forth.

Then you should refrain from questioning things like unified culture of that time. all those called hellenians (that's greeks for barbarians like you ) shared not only a common language and many, many same customs but also the SENSE of a unifying culture. If you want to see where the notion of one nation culture started from you should study more.

quote: That's just BS, Greeks are in general terms no better or worse than any other people. Greecians are not in any way per definition and by heritage diffent in that aspect. It's in fact an absurd statement.

Every peoples is different. They have their own history and deeds both recent and older. To say that all are the same is simply, bof, wrong.

quote: Quite simple, I stated that an argument about conqueror hardly have to be true in every instance as all events are unique. As you might have missed out. I never in said that Alexander the Great was a cultural-vandal.

yeah in that respect you are correct. I jumped on your throat cause I was pissed. Then you trolledso you had more coming.

quote: Dito, to you as you have made quite a few already.

At least they were clear.

quote: It might have gone over you head but that was again not a serious remark, although yes I might be a barbarian in the same way as an idiot per definiton is anyone not interested in politics etc.

politics and idiots have nothing to do with the fact that you are a barbarian.

	15-05-2002 01:45									#94
	Full PM-box? Change here!

arrian

you realize that by what you said you admitted that you don't have any

(mcdonalds is a joke between me and Spray don't sweat it)

	15-05-2002 01:49									#95
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Paiktis,

Not sweatin' it at all, just joking around with you. I admit to eating in a Burger King in France, though in my defense that was in an airport.

-Arrian

	15-05-2002 01:56									#96
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well i had home made italian food when i was there, mcdonalds was the fastest and cheapest choice in venice (in a day of like 10 hours site seeing

	15-05-2002 02:04									#97
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I had homemade bruschetta when I was there, and OMFG it was amazing.

Heh, from the rebuilding of the Colossus to eating McDonalds in Italy... a clinic on how to OT in OT.

-Arrian

	16-05-2002 02:24									#98
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There's not much to say about most of the heated debate that erupted here a while ago, it's just time to let the few things that are left pass. There's however one reason worth brining the thread up from the depths of the OT;

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Every peoples is different. They have their own history and deeds both recent and older. To say that all are the same is simply, bof, wrong.

Yes, there's diffrences between countries and also in an abstract form diffrences between peoples. I'm not at all refuting that. However you where not just talking about diffrences in general terms but refered back over 2000 years to the Democracy of Athens and stated that this made elitism uncompatible with Greece where people "are to the point of nausea and counter productiveness saturated with the ideals of democracy".

I can't accept that at all. Democracy is stronger in some countries than others but when speaking about a country with a fascist junta as late as 1974 speak about some mysterious link to ancient athens that makes greeks democratic and unelitistic is an absurd statement.

Considering what you're saying about other cultures it's surely quite a elitistic democracy against the rest of the world and it's possible you've learned that from ancient Greece but that the people of Greece should have is simply a conception that's fit for propaganda but hardly a balanced view of the society.