20-05-2002 20:15									#31
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Yeah. Holland still got beaten in a qualifying group by Ireland. They aren't good enough to go so they shouldn't go. Holland is about the only good team not at the world cup and one of the top European teams misses out every year. Tough. Europe gets more places in the finals than anyone else by miles. It's got more places in the finals by more than double anyone else.

	20-05-2002 20:16									#32
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And Costa Rica beat the Mexico and the US in their qualifying so even if that federation only had 1 place in the finals they'd be there. How can you deny them that when they've earnt it in qualifying?

	20-05-2002 20:17									#33
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To make the Dutch boys even happier, I've heard FIFA vice president Lennart Johansson say they're considering giving the Asian and North American teams even more slots in the WC.

	20-05-2002 20:42									#34
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I thought you implied a smaller World Cup (would not regard them as a top 16 team), Holland might make it into the top 32. As for smoking stuff, that's you're department and you'll probably have no problem getting amoungst the best 32 in that aspect.

	20-05-2002 20:55									#35
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quote: Holland might make it into the top 32.

might?

name 32 teams better than Holland.

	20-05-2002 20:56									#36
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Starting with Ireland?

	20-05-2002 21:06									#37
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hmm 32 teams better than Holland... should we take it in alphabetic order? Holland didn't perform. If you want teams to get to the world cup without actually performing anything on the pitch I don't know what the world cup would have to do with sports anymore.

	20-05-2002 21:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin If you want teams to get to the world cup without actually performing anything on the pitch I don't know what the world cup would have to do with sports anymore.

...Brazil...

	20-05-2002 21:09									#39
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Absolutely. Holland should have been a good team but they weren't just a bunch of talented individuals not performing. They didn't deserve to go.

	20-05-2002 21:11									#40
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Brazil and Italy are much alike. Two countries with boring and underperforming clubs in decaying leauges that still manage to substain a decent national side.

	20-05-2002 21:15									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Absolutely. Holland should have been a good team but they weren't just a bunch of talented individuals not performing.

The National team suffers from one problem: there's no leader on the pitch.
Frank de Boer may have the most caps of all Dutch players ever, but he sucks as a captain
Van Gaal didn't make things better either with his "experiments".

	20-05-2002 21:18									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Brazil and Italy are much alike. Two countries with boring and underperforming clubs in decaying leauges that still manage to substain a decent national side.

I don't know about that. Brazil performed pretty poorly in qualifying, which cost Luxemburgo his position, and only barely qualified.
Italy has indeed been underperforming club-wise, but it's a hell of a team they can bring onto the pitch.

	20-05-2002 21:49									#43
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Brazil would have a hell of a team to if there was some competence at all in brazilian football. I've read that due to the total corruption and anarchy in Brazil a top side might have to play 107 games in one season. Clearly a nation where drastic reforms are necissary.

	20-05-2002 22:05									#44
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go Canada

*places bag over his head in shame*

	20-05-2002 22:47									#45
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quote: hmm 32 teams better than Holland... should we take it in alphabetic order? Holland didn't perform. If you want teams to get to the world cup without actually performing anything on the pitch I don't know what the world cup would have to do with sports anymore.

we obviously outperform the USA, who are going to the World Cup.

	20-05-2002 22:50									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus we obviously outperform the USA, who are going to the World Cup.

You lost to Ireland. Get over it.

	20-05-2002 22:52									#47
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quote: You lost to Ireland. Get over it.

Ireland is a better team than the US is

	20-05-2002 22:54									#48
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The Netherlands (please stop that Holland thing) have very good players, only some way we can't make anything of it. O'Brien and Stewart are mediocre players in the Dutch League. Not saying they're bad players, but that shows the difference in quality on the pitch. I am convinced that if the incredible bad work in the field could change in that what the players are used to at their own club, we could beat every other team in the world.

Personally I think we in the Netherlands have a major problem with our coaches, I remember Advocaat with Oranje once earlier, why he again? I've got a better idea, Gerets on the bench.

(PSV rulez!!!)

	20-05-2002 22:56									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Ireland is a better team than the US is

And Senegal is a better team than Holland.

	20-05-2002 22:57									#50
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We can always ask Koeman

Go Ajax!

	20-05-2002 22:57									#51
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quote: O'Brien and Stewart are mediocre players in the Dutch League.

They are also mediocre players in the US National Team .

	20-05-2002 23:27									#52
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As for the quality of Costa rica, at this very minute swedish tv is airing an old chronicle from Italia '90 where they finished off both Scotland (1-0) and Sweden (2-1) in the group stage before losing out to Czechoslovakia (4-1) at the same time the Dutch side lost 2-1 to West Germany.

	24-05-2002 22:47									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: O'Brien and Stewart are mediocre players in the Dutch League. They are also mediocre players in the US National Team .

Why are they selected then?

	24-05-2002 22:51									#54
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quote: Why are they selected then?

Bench players.

	24-05-2002 22:57									#55
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Didn't notice that, doesn't Stewart have 80 caps or so already?

	24-05-2002 23:06									#56
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Yeah, but he's super old.. in his mid-30s at least. Stewart is mainly used for leadership.

Both though start on the bench. Stewart was a main starter back in 1990 and 1994. This is O'Brien's first WC, IIRC.

	24-05-2002 23:17									#57
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33 years, I think. But he has never played better than he does now, at least what I can remember. I don't say having players at big clubs guarantees quality, but where are the Americans mainly playing? Not at the very top of the European leagues.

	24-05-2002 23:21									#58
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Well no... the US is trying to entice them into staying at home and playing in the MLS, so they can build up the league. Most of the US players come from the MLS. Some, like the goalies (Brad Friedal and Kasey Keller) play in England. Cladio Reyna (the most important player on the team) plays in Germany, IIRC, and used to play for Rangers in Scotland. And of course, O'Brian and Stewart play in the Netherlands. I believe everyone else plays in the US... though DeMarcus Beasley and Landon Donovan might make the jump to Europe in a few years.

	24-05-2002 23:41									#59
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I do understand that building up the MLS is important, but it might be important for players to compete in the Champions League or UEFA Cup to get some experience. And after Rangers were defeated by Feyenoord I don't rate that club that high anymore. Our Dutch isn't anymore what it has been, England is a better place for Americans I guess.
I think that Europe, with South-America following, offers the best oppurtunities for players to develop to be good enough at a World Cup.

	24-05-2002 23:57									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Cladio Reyna (the most important player on the team) plays in Germany, IIRC, and used to play for Rangers in Scotland.

Dusting off an old account to say this, but Reyna plays for Sunderland in England. They finished fourth bottom this year having finished seventh in the previous two seasons.

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Compared to Holland, France and Spain?

Would that be the Spain who always perform at major competitions, the Dutch who don’t gel as a team, and the French who are the world champions? Senegal earned their place in the world cup just as much as Slovenia or China did. Teams like Yugoslavia and Romania aren’t there because Slovenia, hardly a team of superstars, beat them.