21-05-2002 08:44									#1
	Spanish UU: Lame or Not? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why is there a dog there? How lame.

It looks like a German Shepherd, too. My sister's Chihuahua would have made a better choice:

http://www.barkbytes.com/history/chihua.htm

	21-05-2002 08:47									#2
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By the way, I don't need a historical explanation about the Spanish bringings dogs to track down the Native Americans. I know all about that.

	21-05-2002 12:17									#3
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To me the dog isn't really a factor in the "lameness" question on the Conquistadors as a UU.

Though personally, I won't judge those sorts of things until we actually have PTW and have played it a bit. Right now we just don't have enough info to judge such things, imho.

That said, I can hazard a guess at why they might have the dog there, and its not just for some attempt at historiocity. Its probably there as much for visual distinctiveness in the game as anything. Consider that with the addition of the UUs we now know of from PTW, there will be at least 8 (if not more) horse-mounted units. Horseman, Rider, Mounted Warrior, Knight, Cavalry, Cossack, and now Keshik and Conquistador. Thats a lot of units to have with such similar basic visual characteristics. They have to do something to make the new units stand out from all of the others.

	21-05-2002 12:38									#4
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I think the conquistador looks more ridiculous than his dog

	21-05-2002 12:45									#5
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar Why is there a dog there? How lame. It looks like a German Shepherd, too. My sister's Chihuahua would have made a better choice: http://www.barkbytes.com/history/chihua.htm

my fiance has a chihuahua. that said, (since she is not here right now :naughty I will say that that is a retarted idea, to have a chihuahua as a hunting dog. Or is that too insensitive, to be huntin' injuns'?

	21-05-2002 13:09									#6
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Getting warmed up for something siredgar?

	21-05-2002 14:17									#7
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the UU of Spain civ must be the "tercio", of course.

	21-05-2002 14:21									#8
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar By the way, I don't need a historical explanation about the Spanish bringings dogs to track down the Native Americans. I know all about that.

A point: not -all- native american: Spain gets more allies than enemies when arrived to America

...and... what about anothers? I think about americans & indian tribes...

	21-05-2002 14:41									#9
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Maybe the dog should be replaced by the smallpox virus

	21-05-2002 14:46									#10
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*off topic*
Assur! You're still alive! Why haven't we heard from you in weeks in the CtP2 SG?
*/off topic*

	21-05-2002 14:54									#11
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I can't believe people are ALREADY whining about the XP.

I don't really mind the conquistador looking ridiculous and being accompanied by a dog.

I don't care how the unit looks as long as it can fight like its supposed to.

Anyway, things aren't exactly set in concrete at this time. Who knows? Maybe somewhere down the track, Firaxis might decide to make changes.

Anyway, I'd probably mod the Conquistador to resemble the AOE2 Conquistador.

	21-05-2002 15:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus *off topic* Assur! You're still alive! Why haven't we heard from you in weeks in the CtP2 SG? */off topic*

Locutus, check your PM's to read about my personal problems

	21-05-2002 16:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Assur Maybe the dog should be replaced by the smallpox virus

It's sick, but it's funny.

	21-05-2002 17:06									#14
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I found the musketeer was a lame UU (not a real French military specificity)
I find that the Conquistador is a lame UU : rather than taking the Tercio, which is unknown but proven to be very valuable for the Spanish military (so say the Spaniards at least), they took an expeditionary korps which isn't a unit as such : there were footsoldiers, cavaliers, and even cannoneers among the conquistadors.
That said, at least it will fight excessively well
(BTW, I don't think the dog is lame, it adds some variety)

	21-05-2002 17:08									#15
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Sometimes I wonder if George Lucas and Sid Meier have lost their touch.................................

	21-05-2002 17:10									#16
	Re: Spanish UU: Lame or Not? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by siredgar Why is there a dog there? How lame. It looks like a German Shepherd, too. My sister's Chihuahua would have made a better choice: http://www.barkbytes.com/history/chihua.htm

on the contrary, having a chiuaua is lame beyond words

	22-05-2002 00:08									#17
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Come on, it's so early to speak of it, yet. We can't speak much before the E3, and even then, I'll be careful with whatever I say right till I get a copy of PtW and play a few games with it.

	22-05-2002 00:19									#18
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shut up! the dog is cute!!!!

just kidding. what's it supposed to do, give you better scouting radius or something?

	22-05-2002 02:47									#19
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IT doesnt matter, but to be historically accurate, the whole unit should just be a smallpox virus!

	22-05-2002 02:53									#20
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What's a 'tercio'?

	22-05-2002 03:01									#21
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A quick internet search showed me pictures of bullfighting, including pictures of a guy on a hores fighting a bull, as well as a painting that looks a lot like Picaso's painting of Don Quixote. There was also a page for an armoured marine batalion.
Therefore, please help or I'll go on thinking that this 'tercio' is;
a. a bullfighter (take that 'cattle' bonus squares )
b. a slightly demented old man who thinks he's a knight (great for destroying irrigation since there aren't any windmills in the games to tilt at)
c. another modern armour unit
Not that this all matters since we know the UU, I'm just curious.

	22-05-2002 03:24									#22
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It's largely irrelevant whether the unit was actually technically a unit... in the Civ3 scheme of things, the UUs have been made to reflect what is best known about each Civ. It's not the product of a history book, and most gamers don't want to look up the units they are using before they can understand and relate to them.

	22-05-2002 04:08									#23
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Cyclotron :
Maybe, but we'll have an absolutely not-known Hwacha as Korean UU, and I'd never heard of the Keshik before. So there will be some things which can interest the players. (other example : I didn't know about the Immortals, so I profited from my ignorance to pick some basics on ancient Persian history).

Andrew_Jay :
I don't know exactly what a "tercio" is, because I only read about it in this forum, but it seems like the very thing the Spaniards want to represent their country's military.
AFAIK, it's a unit mixing pikemen and musketmen which was nearly invicible until the coming of more modern cavalry. It was the backbone of Spanish wars in Europe. (well, I might be wrong, but it's the way I understood)

	22-05-2002 06:45									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Sometimes I wonder if George Lucas and Sid Meier have lost their touch.................................

Perhaps PTW will let you trade Death Star plans instead of world maps?

	22-05-2002 06:52									#25
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Ahhhh who cares if they put a stupid dog in the picture. It actually gives some personality to the numerous mounted units instead of having them all look the same.

	22-05-2002 07:26									#26
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I like the dog!

	22-05-2002 07:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Ahhhh who cares if they put a stupid dog in the picture. It actually gives some personality to the numerous mounted units instead of having them all look the same.

The fact that it's a mounted unit period is bad enouhg IMHO. Aren't there enough?

Perhaps for spain, we should have militan police as a UU. When I was in spain, all I saw were guys in uniform, showing off their AKs, or what ever.

I was in a KFC in madride, and those police guys shot down a car theif in front of the KFC. It wasn't pretty.

	22-05-2002 08:05									#28
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It's doubtful military policemen with AK47s have had much impact upon Spanish history...

	22-05-2002 08:12									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Trip It's doubtful military policemen with AK47s have had much impact upon Spanish history...

Well, it certainly effect my history of Spain.

	22-05-2002 09:20									#30
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THE DOG IS WHAT MAKES THE UNIT! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST OTHERWISE!

personally, I wouldn't even consider buying this game if the dog *WASN'T* included.