21-05-2002 17:38									#1
	What will the remaining 2 unknown civs be? Increase the size of your Attachments

It is now as good as proven that six of the eight new civs will be:

Spanish
Vikings
Mongols
Koreans (evidence- special unit Hwacha)
Celts (evidence- leader name Brennus)
Carthagenians (evidence - entry on MP screen).

What do you think the other two civs are going to be?

	21-05-2002 19:17									#2
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I wish they would make the Huns a playable nation. I always wanted to lay as the huns but there always put in as barbarions

	21-05-2002 19:30									#3
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I've always been annoyed because of having all english, french and germans, whose difference i really in real history can't tell and which i see belonging to the same civilization. I can't see much point adding dutch of spanish.

Carthagenians (counterweighting the greco-romanic culture), or jews (maybe not a historial superpower, but as an example of really strange history) would bring more balance to the historial picture. Same goes with ethiopia and mongols.

	21-05-2002 19:51									#4
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Well...I don't see any room for the Dutch or any more European country, and I couldn't care less about Arabs or those countries nearby. Then there's only Canadians, Mayas and Incas to choose from, but I'm not that much for adding Canada, and the Mayas and Incas are much a like, so I can't choose both, so I choose Mayas and one not on the list: Australia

	21-05-2002 20:16									#5
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Why not the Québécois??? just a joke ( unless we're putting 200 civs in that game ).

	21-05-2002 20:47									#6
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I do not yet think that the Koreans are proved, but it's likely. I want the Hebrews, and probably Mayans.

	21-05-2002 20:50									#7
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So the Koreans are more or less official? I've seen the civlopaedia picture, but brought up in another thread that it might be from the Japanese unit set for scenario building. But someone has verrified the 'rocket wagon'/Hwacha as being a UU? Just wondering.

I doubt Canada will be in, even if I am Canadian The Iriqouis are already on Canadian territory anyway.

About the Hebrew and Arab civs, I doubt they could get away with putting in one and not the other. So if there are two spots left, perhaps they fill them. However, I heard in another thread that 7 of the 8 had been verrified, though I cannot remember what was said to back this up.

	21-05-2002 21:14									#8
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My prediction: arabs and incans

Last edited by civman2000 on 21-05-2002 at 22:04

	21-05-2002 21:54									#9
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This thread has a very short lifespan, as we'll know it in the next 3 days

But I'd say turks and Incans :
- Turks almost made it in the Original Civ1, the Arabs never.
- Mayan have no room to expand on a world map, and we need another American Civ. Granted, it's not an important factor anymore, as we now have the Celts, the Spanish and the Vikins in Europe, which adds even more Civs on a continent crowded with Rome, Greece, France, Germany and Russia

	21-05-2002 22:24									#10
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Incans and Israelis are my guess.

	21-05-2002 22:35									#11
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I'm hoping for the Ethiopians and Inca but I honestly think the Turks will beat out the Ethiopians.

	21-05-2002 23:07									#12
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*IF* the Koreans are indeed in, then that means there are still no middle-eastern or american civs in the XP. Thus, the last two spots *WILL * each be claimed by those two cultural groups, respectively.
I think Inca are almost a shoe-in, not quite a total shoe-in since Firaxis could conceivably go with the Maya or Sioux. The Middle-East is much tougher to predict. At this juncture, I would guess the Arabs. But if the Koreans exist only in the Japanese scenario, then the Isrealites will be in to.
So in short, I say it will be the Inca and Arabs or Inca, Arabs, and Isrealites. Just remember you heard it here first. :P

	21-05-2002 23:42									#13
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I'm not convinced of the Korean Civ being in the game either. The picture could very well be from the Feudal Japan set-up. I'd like to see just a bit more evidence before I make a judgement on it.

	21-05-2002 23:49									#14
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I voted on Turks and Incans, seems the best bet to me. Fits the regions and gives a bit more variety to things.

	22-05-2002 00:30									#15
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quote: Originally posted by jugurtti I've always been annoyed because of having all english, french and germans, whose difference i really in real history can't tell and which i see belonging to the same civilization.

well ... we kinda feel the same about the Finns, Swedes and Danes ...

*shrugs* ahh ... there is so much we are both missing out on ...

c'est la vie.

ON-TOPIC: I'd love to see the Canadians in the game ... it'd just be funny.

seriously though, the Turks would be cool and it makes sense to include them. I'd also like to see the Ethiopians. I wouldn't mind either Incans or Mayans, but I'd rather have the other two.

	22-05-2002 01:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by jugurtti I've always been annoyed because of having all english, french and germans, whose difference i really in real history can't tell and which i see belonging to the same civilization. I can't see much point adding dutch of spanish.

What history book do you read?

	22-05-2002 01:17									#17
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I would say the Incas (or Mayas) - there'd better be an ability to build on the mountains! ... There needs to be a SA civ. I don't know who the 2nd might be (Turks?).

I also picked Polish, being part Polish myself, and Germany and Italy are already in there...

	22-05-2002 01:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy I'm not convinced of the Korean Civ being in the game either. The picture could very well be from the Feudal Japan set-up. I'd like to see just a bit more evidence before I make a judgement on it.

That unit was used in Korea. The Koreans had thier tiny limelight in history centuries ago. Its a perfectly reasonable civ to have.

	22-05-2002 01:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy I'm not convinced of the Korean Civ being in the game either. The picture could very well be from the Feudal Japan set-up. I'd like to see just a bit more evidence before I make a judgement on it.

Can't be. The name doesn't sound Japanese, and besides I don't think they used gunpowder much in wars - only to start it (based on a Kurosawa movie I saw).

	22-05-2002 01:25									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm hoping for the Ethiopians and Inca but I honestly think the Turks will beat out the Ethiopians.

I'm really hoping to see the Ethiopians included, but I share your doubts. Too bad, really. Most Americans seem to only know Ethiopia for the famines of the mid-70s.

If the Turks are included, they'll be right up there with the Iroquois (apologies to Ribannah) on my "don't really care" list.

	22-05-2002 02:22									#21
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Frankly, I think it would be more likely that Turks would be grouped under the Arab umbrella, than vise-versa.
I would like to see the Ethiopians too though.

	22-05-2002 02:25									#22
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Incans, Turks, Arabs or Israelis. If it's anything other than that, I'll eat this Coke can.

And including the Canadians or Australians would be... umm, half hilarous and half idiodic. No offense to either Canadians or Australians, but they're basically just English/British. Though I can see people complaining about including America then, but American culture is far different from British, and really have built a civilization of their own. Hell, Canada and Australia are still part of the British Commonwealth.

	22-05-2002 02:36									#23
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No problem Trip about Canada not belonging as a civ, especially since they are trying to pick a fairly small number of good civs. If there were 30-40 or 50 I'd want Canada in it. Besides, I'd be embarassed if Canada was included, since there would be a great deal of outrage on these forums

	22-05-2002 03:12									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Incans, Turks, Arabs or Israelis. If it's anything other than that, I'll eat this Coke can. And including the Canadians or Australians would be... umm, half hilarous and half idiodic. No offense to either Canadians or Australians, but they're basically just English/British. Though I can see people complaining about including America then, but American culture is far different from British, and really have built a civilization of their own. Hell, Canada and Australia are still part of the British Commonwealth.

Just English/British??? British Commonwealth?! almost as prehistoric as monarchy. We live in North America for Christ sakes. You don't travel much, do you??? The world is bigger than you think.

Oh, but no offense taken : the ONLY part of your statements that shows some sense is when you say hilarious...of course within a 24-civs game. Bien sûr que le Canada n'est pas une civilisation, c'est un amalgame de plusieurs peuples dont la richesse est en partie dépendante de son puissant voisin du sud.

	22-05-2002 04:00									#25
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On the main page at CivFanatics, Thunderfall says :
"The other two Civs are probably the Turks and the Mayas/Incas"
Sure, he probably joins the pseculation, but I think His Words Are Backed With some facts or direct info from Firaxis.
We'll see in the next 3 days (E3)

	22-05-2002 04:13									#26
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The Ethiopians would be a good choice, but if you were playing on a world map, you would start in a not-so-habitable place.

I would like to see Canada or Australia in the game on one level, but on another it doesn't really make sense to have a 130 year old civ (Canada) competing with civs that died out 2000 years ago. Canada would be a necessity in a world war 2 scenario though. I usually imagine that the Iroquois are Canada, since they start in more or less the right area and, if the Americans are in the game, usually end up with about the same borders.

I doubt we'll see Turkey, because that would make the middle east potentially way too crowded (well it is, but it doesn't work in the game). With Greece, Egypt, Babylon and Persia surrounding it, I think Turkey is better off as a place for these civs to fight over. Also, it would be another situation where the civ would have a bad starting location.

I think that the Incas are a must, simply because South America is otherwise empty and the Incas did have an important role in history. This is another situation of a bad starting location though.

I doubt Israel will be included. It is just over 50 years old. The Jews would be a more likely possibility, but they weren't a typical civilization, with cities and borders and such. Plus I'm sure Firaxis doesn't want to get involved with any controversies.

I also don't think the Koreans should be included. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Korea has always been a small nation, and its only historical conflicts were with China and Japan. Obviously it should be in the Japan scenario, but not in the standard game.

As you can probably tell, I play on the world map (Satya's) a lot, so I'm not a fan of really close starting locations. I like the Celts, though, because it adds a different kind of culture to Europe instead of the typical industrial civs like England, France and Germany.

	22-05-2002 04:15									#27
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I'd like to see the Polish and the Austrians for some sim-EU. But if thunderfall says Turks and Incas, that's probably it.

	22-05-2002 04:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus Just English/British??? British Commonwealth?! almost as prehistoric as monarchy. We live in North America for Christ sakes. You don't travel much, do you??? The world is bigger than you think.

I didn't say just English/British, I said basically. I thought Canada was on the moon... No need to hint at flaming. Take things as they come. I'm willing to hear the argument about how the Americans maybe should not be included, the least you could do is the same.

quote: Oh, but no offense taken : the ONLY part of your statements that shows some sense is when you say hilarious...of course within a 24-civs game. Bien sûr que le Canada n'est pas une civilisation, c'est un amalgame de plusieurs peuples dont la richesse est en partie dépendante de son puissant voisin du sud.

No, I meant if the game with 1000 civs... I'd include Liechtenstein before Canada...

If Canada is such a mix of cultures, then why are people arguing that it is its own culture? True, it may be different from anywhere else in the world, but it's not as unique a culture as, say, China. Even if it was, it hasn't accomplished much outside of the fame of Britain.

	22-05-2002 06:23									#29
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Has anyone seen anything official?

I haven't voted yet, still thinking about it. I don't think there are any guarantees that American (North/Central/South) or Middle Eastern/African will be in it. It will be interesting to see if Celt and Korea are in it. I have read the evidence (on both sides) and it could be interpreted either way. Making Brennus leader of the Celt/Viking group, Hwacha Japanese or Chinese, or even just a unit buildable by anyone to add additional artillery to the game.

I have no preference.

	22-05-2002 06:40									#30
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Well, if Firaxis tells that Brennus is the leader of the Vikings, it will be utterly stupid. They made some mistakes in a pure historical point of view, but I haven't seen such nonsenses so far... Like saying Caesar is the leader of the Russians.
In the hypothesis that this utter stupidity happens, I'll edit Brennus' name right away, to make something like "Erik the Red" or whatever known Viking leader name. I don't have problems with this : I don't know either Brennus' nor Erik's faces. Much easier to change their names than renamin Joan into Napoleon