23-05-2002 09:19									#1
	Why Korea may *NOT* be included in the XP Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

First and foremost, I do hope Korea does make it in the game. If it were up to me they would certainly be in, but at this point there are good reasons to believe that they are not included.
The gamespot preview of e3 released just moments ago reveals that there is going to be 17 (!) new units in the Feudal Japan themepack. That is a large number of units, and the fact that they didn't show any pictures of any of the WW II or Feudal Japan scenarios in the released screenshots besides possibly this one, points strongly in the direction of this unit IS actually from a scenario. In fact, in all the websites which mention the hwacha, it is always being described as being a time in which Korea was at war with Japan. This fact alone strongly points to Korea only existing in the feudal japan scenario.
If Korea is out, that means there will be an american civ at least, most likely the Inca, and at least one middle-eastern civ. However, my prediction is this, with all the violence in the middle-east Firaxis may not want to stir up any contraversy prematurely, but I think the last two civilizations will be the Hebrews and the Arabs.

	23-05-2002 09:21									#2
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On a goodnote, if Korea is only in the themepack, then at least it will be easy for our hackers to add them as a 9th civ, even if they only have one animated leaderhead. They will certainly have a number of cool UUs to choose from.

	23-05-2002 13:47									#3
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Your guess about Korea as a Civ only available in Feudal Japan have some point, still I don't believe Firaxis would develop a full Civ only for scenario purpose.

I agree they would develop specific units for scenario purpose (but they will probably be available from start, not related to a dedicated tech tree).

So, while the Korea guess seems to me to be based mostly on the picture of the unit "hwacha", I suppose we can have Firaxis mixing Korean and Japanese units for Japanese scenario (hence, the hwacha could be only a new unit added to Japan set for scenario purpose.

That is, or the Korea is a regular Civ of the new bunch of eight added.

	23-05-2002 18:19									#4
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Yeah, developing a Civ complete with animated units and leader heads just for a scenario seems a bit wasteful. Still, if it is possible to do, then it's a good thing - in that case we can lookj forward to many very interesting scenarios, at least if the editor is up to scratch this time.

	23-05-2002 21:02									#5
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it will be added AND used in the japanese thing...they wouldnt make so much without adding it as a normal civ too

	23-05-2002 22:43									#6
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I agree with Civman. That much effort wasted on a singel scenario is improbable indeed.

	24-05-2002 01:09									#7
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Why is it so hard to beleive Korea will make it into the game?

	24-05-2002 07:49									#8
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Probably the strongest reason that we are jumping to conclusions with Korea here, and one that I didn't think of until a few moments ago, is that their unit would be an artillery unit and as such, it would be one that would turn our system of Golden Ages on it's ear. Currently, a golden age occurs when a UU "wins" a battle, and I don't see how Artillery can "win" a battle unless lethal bombardment is turned on, and even then it is considerably more difficult than other units.
I think that with all these factors taken into consideration, unfortunately, it seems Korea will be relegated to the Feudal Japan scenario.

Last edited by monkspider on 24-05-2002 at 09:34

	24-05-2002 07:52									#9
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I really, really hope that I am proven wrong though. I was once a key supporter of Korea in the XP civs vote a few months back.

	24-05-2002 08:02									#10
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good point...maybe it somehow won't be artillery ...

	24-05-2002 12:33									#11
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 good point...maybe it somehow won't be artillery ...

Yes, may be it ends to act as a different kind of lonbowmen (different statistics).

	24-05-2002 18:01									#12
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I remain hopeful that the Koreans will be in. As already said, it would be wasteful to make them just for the Feudal Japan themepack.

I hope that there are more units in this themepack than just the hwacha that could be used as a Korean UU, since I'd like to see the Turtle Ship in, and if it doesn't get in, then I could at least grab it from the themepack, rather than having to export it from the AOE2 XP.

	25-05-2002 01:06									#13
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All the unit portraits already shown were UUs for various civs. That makes me think the Hwacha is the UU for Korea as well.

	25-05-2002 01:36									#14
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I think that Infogrames didn't unveil anything precise about the graphic packs... The first possible reason is that they're not ready (it seems they're toying with the idea of adding a dinosaur pack as well). The second possible reason is that Infogrames doesn't want to disclose all the new info at the same time.
Anyhow, I think we've seen only graphics from the regular game, and I'm happy to believe the Koreans will make it. Possibly, we'll know tomorrow the name of the last Civ.

	25-05-2002 01:44									#15
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Good points folks, we will find out soon.
I still think it is much more likely that Firaxis will include at least one American civ in the XP (either the Inca or Mayas) than the Korean unit is in fact, not part of the theme pack.
In any event, nothing at this point may be set in stone. Anyone remember the Russian UU MiG graphics that they had circulating for the longest time after Civ 3 was announced?

	25-05-2002 01:45									#16
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Bah, screw a dinosaur pack. Give us a Roman pack or something. Or a good modern warfare pack. Not... dinosaurs...

	25-05-2002 01:51									#17
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No way Trip, Dinosaurs=

	25-05-2002 01:59									#18
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Oh my goodness...

	25-05-2002 03:30									#19
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Dinosaurs and Koreans? Please, I hope Firaxis doesn't make Civ worse than it already is.

	25-05-2002 10:45									#20
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I too was wondering about this dinosaur pack. Dinosaus??? Seems strange to me, what technology would you need to research to attack with a t-rex for example? And what resources? Coal?? I think not. I can't see how it would work.

Imagine loosing London to a bunch of Diplodicus. Crazy.

I would also prefer a modern warfare pack, but who knows, come XP we may see threads singing praises for the dinos.

Bring on the lizard battles.

	25-05-2002 10:49									#21
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If they do do it, then they're design team will probably spend a month on it, and so doing, change all the techs, civs, resources, etc. I really hope that the whole speculation over the dino pack is just some bad joke. I'd much rather have any period in (human) history than something so outlandish and wasteful...

	25-05-2002 11:23									#22
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Yeah, concentrate on modern warfare. Pretty soon he'll be trying to incorporate his "Golf" game into Civ.

	25-05-2002 11:27									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The Eliminator Yeah, concentrate on modern warfare. Pretty soon he'll be trying to incorporate his "Golf" game into Civ.

Ahhhh, don't kid like that!
We'll see "Castle Pines" Civilization unleashing upon the world with its UU "driverless golf cart."

	25-05-2002 11:44									#24
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feel the wrath of my caddie!

	26-05-2002 10:48									#25
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I just watched that PTW video from E3; I saw dinorsaurs!

Dinosaurs are definitely in. I can't believe it.

	26-05-2002 11:53									#26
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On the main page several days ago did it not say that 6 of the eight new civs were known and tha Korea was one of them???

Ack......dinosaurs??? How 'bout you take away the dinosaurs and give us wonder movies!!!

	26-05-2002 12:21									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Bah, screw a dinosaur pack. Give us a Roman pack or something. Or a good modern warfare pack. Not... dinosaurs...

Dinosaurs could be used by modders to add a new japanese UU...

	26-05-2002 13:27									#28
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Just thought of something regarding the AI unit being an artillery unit. The main thing is that the unit gets "bloodied" up in starting a Golden Age. They could easily make it so that a successful bombard can also start a Golden Age. It would be a good option to provide anyways, for scenario creation.

	26-05-2002 16:18									#29
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I think the Japanase ought to have Godzilla as their UU!

	26-05-2002 20:35									#30
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper I think the Japanase ought to have Godzilla as their UU!

Well take a mean-looking dino in the dino pack and just say it's Godzila.