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Fintilgin
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To say I'm severely disaponted by this news would be an understatement on par with saying the ocean is `slightly damp' or space is `kinda big'. 
I beg Firaxis to at least not hard-code this so that fans can tweak it in the config files or something. Silly as it may be, this was one of the /main/ things I wanted improved over the earlier versions. The world always seems more empty then I'd like. My preference would be, ideally, to on a map of Earth have at least two or three Civs per continent.
I'm sorry, I just don't buy that adding a couple more Civs on top of the `base' seven is going to suddenly swamp our computers to a crawl. Maybe running 32 or 64 would be a little rough, but how `bout 10 or 12? You're telling me that my nifty new computer which can run Black & White at lighting speeds and NINTY odd nations in Europa Universalis is going to choke and die trying to run 14 CivIII nations at once?!
Maybe I'm totally off base, but my suspicion is that there's a limit of seven Civs at once because seven is the traditional number from Civ,CivII, and SMAC. Not because of any intense gameplay issue or computer slowdown.
I really hope that Firaxis allows us to, if we choose, mod our game in such a way as to be able to play with 20-30 or so Civilization, even if we have to add all the extra art and such ourselves. I'm hopefull that they'll leave the CivNum flag open.
Nothing could make me happier then hearing that was so.
Er... nothing computer game related that is.
Joe
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Fintilgin
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Well, yes, I suspect the AI in EU does have a little less work to do. But so much that we're still limited to seven civs? Honestly I find that hard to believe. Surely 14 or so would run fine on most computers.
Joe
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Look, don't read too much into it. Let me quote the magazine: (Unlike every other quote this is the journalist writing and not a transcript of Jeff Briggs) "Playing as one of 16 different civilizations, you pit your wits against up to six other computer-controlled nations as you strive to conquer the globe." It might be a journalists' fault or an implication that you get to play against 16 civs and six, er, "nations" (forget that, stupid theory), but you read into it what you like.
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Cyberbugs
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Sweden
Mar 2001
time: 05:12
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You're right, Inkuul.
You should have some limited diplomatic contact with the "barbarians", of which one of the most advanced diplomatic features would be to bribe them to leave your area or pay them to attack an other civ.
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Wittlich
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A Wyandot lost in "The City" SF,CA
Dec 2000
time: 21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG on 04-27-2001 06:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat on 04-27-2001 02:16 PM
you have to look at how the number of civs in a game will affect the AI and the computer requirements. I am sure that Firaxis would have increased the max civs if they could have but I don't think it is possible.
The burden on the AI would be too much!
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i'm sorry, but this argument is geting ridicullous. we are talking about a game that will be released in 2002, not 1996!
so please, explain me: forget 32. forget 16. not even 12? 10? 8??
can we get one (1) more civ in the game 10 years after civ1???  |
I also agree with Mark's point, with todays technology, there should be the option for more "major" civilizations in play. But let's not forget about what roll the "minor" civs will play in the game. Actually, I would like to know what the maximum number of "minor" civs will be. If the minor civs can be up to, say 10-14, then 7 major civs would be enough for a VERY interesting game. Or how about the multiplayer side of the house? What if you can have up to 7 Human (major) civs and still play with 10 AI (minor) civs - that would actually equate to 17 nations in the game!
However, what we actually need is more insight into this situation - How about it "Dan from Firaxis"? Or even Jeffrey Morris from Firaxis?
[This message has been edited by Wittlich (edited April 27, 2001).]
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- Groucho -
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How is this for a depressing line of reasoning:
Fact: SMAC had seven civs.
Fact: When asked why the SMAC expansion - which added more civs - didn't allow those to be played in a game with more civs the response was that "seven" was hard-coded into the engine.
Fact: Civ-III only allows seven civs.
Assumption: After knowing we've wanted more civs for years, if they were going to rebuild the engine for CivIII they probably would have added more civs.
Inference: They didn't significantly retool the SMAC engine that governs the interaction of civs and are using it again.
Guess: There won't be a marked improvement in the AI because that would require a retooling of the engine and if they did that they would have added more civs.
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me_irate
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The main reason i want more civs is this, in a regular game 100 turns in and you have 5 civs. When i play ctp2 with 14 civs, 100 turns in i have 8 civs. While more have died, you are still ahead and have more civs. The only prob with ctp2 it takes to long, so by mid game comp turns took a couple minutes. Just depends on ones patience, at least id like the option for more civs.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:12
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Why is it that when people like me, Markos, or others suggest or demand a more reasonably higher number of civilizations, the others against it get in an apoloclyptic mood, shouting, "No, no, no!!! The computer technology is still stuck in the 1980's!!!!! You cannot have more than eight civilizations, otherwise your computer will explode!!!!"
Ok, I'm exaggerating their counter-arguments, so sue me. 
Seriously though, as others have pointed out already, we should have a game that takes into consideration the medium ranged computers of today, not the medium ranged computers that existed in 1994.
Most people's computers will be able to run today very well with a maximum civilization number of 12 in every game. If anyone from Firaxis is reading in on this, please reconsider this.
------------------
"I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle, making exceptions to it -- where will it stop? If one man says it does not mean a Negro, why does not another say it does not mean some other man?"
-- Abraham Lincoln's quote, and his anti-racist ideals
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Kull
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El Paso, TX USA
Mar 1999
time: 22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat on 04-27-2001 10:31 PM
But why such a high priority? It seems to me that there are higher priorities, like the trade model, diplomacy model etc... I think that having more civs would be nice but it is more important to focus on the gameplay.
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I'll give you that: In the big scheme of things, number of civs doesn't sound like such a big deal. But ask yourself this. How hard would it be to add two or three civs compared to creating a whole new diplomacy model? I'm no coder, but it seems like all that's necessary is just more of the identical code that applies to the existing seven, plus the additional linkages. We're talking about a game that's been on the drawing board for YEARS and they couldn't set aside a week or two of Level One programmer time for that task? C'mon! That's why so many of are absolutely OUTRAGED by such an obvious omission.
Sad as it is to contemplate, I'm afraid that Echinda's line of reasoning sounds all too logical. Why didn't Firaxis add more civs? Because the number "7" is hardcoded into the SMAC game engine, and that's what we're getting for Civ3. I keep praying that somehow this is all a misunderstanding, and the Firaxis reps will shortly appear to set the story straight.....Civ3 will REALLY have room for more civs than a scenario designer could hope for. But just to be on the safe side, I won't hold my breath.
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27-04-2001 22:23
limit is the single most limiting factor for making scenarios. I hope Firaxis reconsiders this decision.
, but this 7 civilization limit has the potential to be trully ruinous. 
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