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java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

12-05-2001 10:23

#211

Remove this text

Yes we do have to be patient! Maybe they will post that information in their next update!!!

Mahdimael

Prince

Sandy Eigo, CA, USA
May 2001
time: 05:12

12-05-2001 12:45

#212

Got spare money?

The whole "more than 7 civs" thing never really interested me, actually. Play a game with 7 civs on a normal sized map in civ 2. In general, you can usually make about 10-15 cities (not using ICS). I just think that a bunch of civs in a game, while it may be interesting, would really limit how much fun you could have. You would have 3 cities and be boxed in by opponents.
I would say that the option should be available to include more, but a standard 7 is a good way to go.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

12-05-2001 16:29

#213

Inflate your Upload Space

quote:

Originally posted by Mahdimael on 05-12-2001 03:45 AM
The whole "more than 7 civs" thing never really interested me, actually. Play a game with 7 civs on a normal sized map in civ 2. In general, you can usually make about 10-15 cities (not using ICS). I just think that a bunch of civs in a game, while it may be interesting, would really limit how much fun you could have. You would have 3 cities and be boxed in by opponents.
I would say that the option should be available to include more, but a standard 7 is a good way to go.

Well, I think you are missing the point.

More than 7 civs is not so important for a standard single player game - it is important for scenario making.

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

13-05-2001 09:53

#214

Put an end to popups!

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 05-12-2001 07:29 AM
Well, I think you are missing the point.

More than 7 civs is not so important for a standard single player game - it is important for scenario making.

Roman is correct that more than 7 civs are more important for scenario making instead of standard gameplay!!!

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

13-05-2001 01:09

#215

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks for your continuing support, java4me! Together we make a good anti-7-civ-limit team.

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

13-05-2001 07:57

#216

Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 05-12-2001 04:09 PM
Thanks for your continuing support, java4me!

Together we make a good anti-7-civ-limit team.

Lets just hope that Firaxis listens to us!!!

cyborgasm

Settler

Apr 2001
time: 05:12

13-05-2001 08:10

#217

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If two things are encouraging about this issue, it's that this thread is so phenomenally long, and that Firaxis has now anounced that there will be a decorative city view despite originally stating that they wouldn't. At least the game facets can still be changed.

Mathphysto

Chieftain

East Brunswick, NJ, USA
May 2001
time: 05:12

13-05-2001 08:18

#218

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I just wanted to add my name to the list of civers who are royally pissed off at the prospect of a 7 civ limit. In the name of Realism, I cast thy 7 civ limit into the abyss of Ideas that Piss Me Off! Would 10 be too much to ask? Only Firaxis knows - and we'll find out sooner or later.

One more thing: will this thread stay on until the release of Civ3? I think Roman needs this thread for some sort of therapy or anger management.

Maxxes

Warlord

Amsterdam
Oct 2000
time: 06:12

13-05-2001 08:25

#219

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I personally don't mind the 7 civ limit too much. I've not very much too say on this topic after what has been said already, just wanted to add my name to the longest thread i've ever seen on Apolyton

Lirath

Settler

May 2001
time: 00:12

13-05-2001 10:34

#220

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Maybe I'm totally off base, but my suspicion is that there's a limit of seven Civs at once because seven is the traditional number from Civ,CivII, and SMAC. Not because of any intense gameplay issue or computer slowdown.

Joe[/quote]

Actually, 7 is the traditional limit on the boardgame, even tho you have 9 sets of player tokens.
Lirath

JosefGiven

Warlord

Tavistock, Devon, UK
Jan 2001
time: 05:12

13-05-2001 22:48

#221

Got spare money?

I think all of my main worries, including the civ-specific features (which Firaxis have confirmed can be toggled off) have been put to rest.

However, I would like to see at least the option of increasing the max. number of civs past the customary 7. What does it take? A swift juggle of the code?

Congrats for your behemoth thread, Roman

Theben

Emperor

Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:12

13-05-2001 23:26

#222

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The 150 post count for closing threads is typically reserved for the OT, where threads need to be closed...

Just adding my 2 cents @@ to my disapproval of a 7 civ limit. I don't need 30, but 10-15 would be nice.

OneFootInTheGrave

Prince

Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 02:13

#223

Support Apolyton

The very fact that Jeff still didn't answer this HOT question (with an easy answer - YES otr NO) might mean:
1.They have decided to keep 7 civs hardcoded and don't want to dissappoint us before E3 show.
2. They haven't decided yet?!?
(if they already decided to support more than 7 civ's I would think they would have showed some mercy and told us already)
Out the first two I hope it is the second!

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

14-05-2001 02:23

#224

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I bet that we will find out at the E3 this year. So keep your fingers crossed that they decided to allow more than 7 civs!!!

Ralf

King

Sweden
Mar 2000
time: 06:12

14-05-2001 03:09

#225

Remove this text

quote:

Originally posted by JosefGiven on 05-13-2001 01:48 PM
However, I would like to see at least the option of increasing the max. number of civs past the customary 7. What does it take? A swift juggle of the code?

The problem isnt so much about implementing such an option.

Its about the blatant discrepancy between what civ-players imagine the AI can handle effectively, and what what AI-programmers realize the AI can handle effectively.

If anything; the CTP-2 flopp should learn Firaxis how all-important and crucial the question of a good enough AI-response is, and how quickly even the most loyal civ-enthusiast turns 180 degrees and rants furiously about "that crappy AI". Then this happens, then the fact that "we at least have 16+ simultaneously playing civs to play around with" suddenly feels like a very, very weak and unimportant compensation for most civers. Now, admittedly a limited number of AI-civs didnt help in Activisions case - but allowing 16, or even 32+ AI-civs on the same map would definitely NOT be a good thing, thats for sure.

By the way, click on THIS LINK. Perhaps you guys can learn something from it.

Anyway; im all in for the max 7 (or 8) civ-limit. I have nothing against unofficial backdoors though. If Civ-3 comes with some undocumented text-file tweaking methods what enables 16 simultaneous civs - then so be it.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 03:55

#226

Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:

Originally posted by Mathphysto on 05-12-2001 11:18 PM
I think Roman needs this thread for some sort of therapy or anger management.

ROFLMAO,

If they do keep the limit I will probably need therapy.

Darkknight

Prince

in between Q, W, A and S
Nov 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 03:55

#227

Suffering from ads?

If you want a good game you should be willing for the AI to take as long as needed. I would hope that Firaxis can do better with the AI then Activision even if it does take forever. And yes I agree you need at least 32 civs for a good world scenario. I was going to make one for CTP2 but I started getting bored with CTP2 and gave up. Hopefully if civ3 lets me I'll make it for that. When I was dividing the world up into 32 civs I really had to cut corners for example I had to put all the Former Soviet countries to the south in one nation. There should be an option of having as many civs as you want up to around 100. So what if this would take 10 minutes a turn on a P4 1.5 Y?ou could start off as a tiny African country and work your way up to control a country the size of the US. All right I'd be the first to admit that I'm dreaming for that type of game you'd need a whole new Shadow President type system.

BTW I never make sense when I write long posts so dont worry even I dont understand it.

------------------
" Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few "

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 03:56

#228

Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:

Originally posted by Lirath on 05-13-2001 01:34 AM
Actually, 7 is the traditional limit on the boardgame, even tho you have 9 sets of player tokens.
Lirath

No reason to limit it in the computer game.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 04:00

#229

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave on 05-13-2001 05:13 PM
The very fact that Jeff still didn't answer this HOT question (with an easy answer - YES otr NO) might mean:
They have decided to keep 7 civs hardcoded and don't want to dissappoint us before E3 show.
2. They haven't decided yet?!?
(if they already decided to support more than 7 civ's I would think they would have showed some mercy and told us already)
Out the first two I hope it is the second!

Yes, this is what I am thinking and it worries me.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 04:02

#230

Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:

Originally posted by JosefGiven on 05-13-2001 01:48 PM
I would like to see at least the option of increasing the max. number of civs past the customary 7. What does it take? A swift juggle of the code?

Congrats for your behemoth thread, Roman

Thanks.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 04:06

#231

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:

Originally posted by java4me on 05-13-2001 05:23 PM
I bet that we will find out at the E3 this year. So keep your fingers crossed that they decided to allow more than 7 civs!!!

Unfortunately, the exams at my university end on the 17th, which is when I am leaving home. I don't have internet at home and hence I will have no clue

as to what is revealed at E3 for 3 months until I come back to uni. I will only be able to see what is revealed on the first day (17th), so I hope Civ will have its turn at this time, but I am sceptical.

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

14-05-2001 04:18

#232

Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 05-13-2001 07:06 PM
Unfortunately, the exams at my university end on the 17th, which is when I am leaving home. I don't have internet at home and hence I will have no clue

Man that sucks!!!

That means that you won't be posting anything online for three months, let alone find out what is happening with Civ3.

Maybe someone could send you letters or something!!!

Or get internet connection at your house.

I don't know if I could last that long without an internet connection!!!

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 04:30

#233

Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:

Originally posted by java4me on 05-13-2001 07:18 PM
Man that sucks!!!

That means that you won't be posting anything online for three months, let alone find out what is happening with Civ3.

Maybe someone could send you letters or something!!!

Or get internet connection at your house.

I don't know if I could last that long without an internet connection!!!

Tell me about it!

Unfortunately, an internet connection is expensive...

And, as you correctly point out, what will happen to my thread over those three months?

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

14-05-2001 04:54

#234

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

My other idea was that you could have someone mail you weekly or monthly updates of what is happening with Civ3.

Otherwise I don't know what to say!!!

I will probably continue writing on other peoples ideas while you are gone, and continue this topic as long as possible!!!

That is the best that I can do!!!

java4me

Warlord

California
May 2001
time: 21:12

14-05-2001 07:28

#235

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Lets see how long this forum gets, let alone how long it lasts!!!

Deathwalker

Prince

Great Britain
Mar 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 12:51

#236

Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So is Sid going to tell us how many players they will be in a game. Or are we going to have to wait until the game is released?

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 15:42

#237

Remove this text

quote:

Originally posted by java4me on 05-13-2001 07:54 PM
My other idea was that you could have someone mail you weekly or monthly updates of what is happening with Civ3.

Otherwise I don't know what to say!!!

I will probably continue writing on other peoples ideas while you are gone, and continue this topic as long as possible!!!

That is the best that I can do!!!

Lets see how long this forum gets, let alone how long it lasts!!!

I think the updates will have to pass. I will be moving around quite a lot over the holidays... Anyway, there will be few people looking forward so much to return to university as I.

Thank you, for offering not to abandon the topic. It would be best, though, if Firaxis allowed me to rest in peace over the holidays by making a firm statement on the issue.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 15:45

#238

Inflate your Upload Space

quote:

Originally posted by Ralf on 05-13-2001 06:09 PM
The problem isnt so much about implementing such an option.

Its about the blatant discrepancy between what civ-players imagine the AI can handle effectively, and what what AI-programmers realize the AI can handle effectively.

If anything; the CTP-2 flopp should learn Firaxis how all-important and crucial the question of a good enough AI-response is, and how quickly even the most loyal civ-enthusiast turns 180 degrees and rants furiously about "that crappy AI". Then this happens, then the fact that "we at least have 16+ simultaneously playing civs to play around with" suddenly feels like a very, very weak and unimportant compensation for most civers. Now, admittedly a limited number of AI-civs didnt help in Activisions case - but allowing 16, or even 32+ AI-civs on the same map would definitely NOT be a good thing, thats for sure.

Anyway; im all in for the max 7 (or 8) civ-limit. I have nothing against unofficial backdoors though. If Civ-3 comes with some undocumented text-file tweaking methods what enables 16 simultaneous civs - then so be it.

Once again, I must reiterate that having more than 7 civs per game is an issue of customizability for scenario-makers rather than an issue for playing an ordinary single player game. BUT since you agree on tweaking through text files AND that is what we are asking for anyway, we are not actually in disagreement.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 15:50

#239

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:

Originally posted by Darkknight on 05-13-2001 06:55 PM
If you want a good game you should be willing for the AI to take as long as needed. I would hope that Firaxis can do better with the AI then Activision even if it does take forever. And yes I agree you need at least 32 civs for a good world scenario. I was going to make one for CTP2 but I started getting bored with CTP2 and gave up. Hopefully if civ3 lets me I'll make it for that. When I was dividing the world up into 32 civs I really had to cut corners for example I had to put all the Former Soviet countries to the south in one nation. There should be an option of having as many civs as you want up to around 100. So what if this would take 10 minutes a turn on a P4 1.5

Y?ou could start off as a tiny African country and work your way up to control a country the size of the US. All right I'd be the first to admit that I'm dreaming for that type of game you'd need a whole new Shadow President type system.

BTW I never make sense when I write long posts so dont worry even I dont understand it.

Don't worry, we understand you. You want more civs just like the rest of us.

Roman

King

Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:12

14-05-2001 15:56

#240

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:

Originally posted by Deathwalker on 05-14-2001 03:51 AM
So is Sid going to tell us how many players they will be in a game. Or are we going to have to wait until the game is released?

You see, this is worrying me too. I am afraid that the question did not get answered, yet, because Firaxis does not want to dissapoint us. After all there has been sufficient interest in the issue and our posts were not inflamatory, calling for a boycott or anything of the sort. They were polite arguments. Hence, the most plausible explanation probably is that they just do not want to dissapoint us, so they are not answering.

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