01-05-2001 15:52									#151
	Put an end to popups!

LOL! You guys are TOO much! First, as Imran has pointed out, we don't even know how Minor Civs will work...and that could really round out the picture here. So just hold on until we have more info!

	01-05-2001 16:11									#153
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WHY IT MAKES BUSINESS SENSE TO RAISE THE CIVILIZATION LIMIT ABOVE 7

THEORY OF POSITIVE EXTERNALITY:

From the above posts, it is clear that the group that is most angry about the 7 civilization limit is the scenario makers. This is hardly a suprise - playing with more than 7 civilizations per game in a normal, single player game may not be a large improvment as some posters point out, but having more than 7 civilizations is important for making scenarios, because it is a fundemantal limit and being able to change it is an important part of customization. Undoubtedly removing the limit could contribute to more and better scenarios.
Firaxis people themselves have admited that one of the most important reasons for the longevity of the Civilization series has been the customizability of the games and the scenario/mod community's creation of scenarios for the Civilization games. Raising the 7 civilization limit would not only stop the alienation of some scenario makers who have been aking for an increase in the number of civs per game (as a priority) for years and feel they have been totally ignored on too many occasions, but would also enable them to create more and better scenarios.
This in turn would have a positive effect on sales, as scenarios are posted on the web and thus provide a positive externality for the compan and it would increase the longevity of the game further.

Therefore, please Firaxis reconsider this 7 civilization limit, for your own good and ours too.

	01-05-2001 16:46									#154
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

WHY THE 7 CIVILIZATION LIMIT IS SO DAMAGING TO SCENARIO MAKERS

A CASE STUDY: The world as it is now - scenario

I thought a good explanation of the damage the 7 civilization limit does to scenario makers could be provided by means of an example.

Let us suppose a scenario maker decides to create a scenario based on the real world in its current state.

The scenario maker must decide how to split up the world into 7 civilizations. This will probably end up in the following division:

USA - North America
EU - European Union and associated countries
Russia - Commonwealth of Independent States
China - China, North Korea, Burma
India - obvious
Islamic States - a large amalgation of countries many of which have little to do with each other and are even outright hostile to each other
Neutrals - everybody else

Now you must be able to see the limits this imposes on scenario-makers. With this kind of set up an attack on Thailand by China will immediately result in China being at war also with Brazil, Switzerland, Mali, Japan, etc. Not only that, but the "Neutrals" also invariably are the most powerful civ in the game as they unite a vast collection of countries many of which should have no connection to each other whatsoever. I am sure you understand that is only an example and that there are many other problems with this setup and now can appreciate the problems scenario-makers face with the 7 civilization limit.

	01-05-2001 17:05									#155
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BTW: The above case study comes from my own experience (and there are many more), so I know how frustrating the limit can be.

	01-05-2001 17:07									#156
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The solemn promise:

Once Firaxis clarifies this issue ie. explains whether the limit will be editable in the text-files, or whether there will be minor civs greater than just the barbarian cities and says why they decided to keep the limit, I promise to make only one last final post on the matter detailing my final opinion on it.

	01-05-2001 19:12									#157
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I have only one word:

BOYCOTT!

	02-05-2001 02:14									#160
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Imran, unlike the AI, minor civs are a much more tangible element of the game, so it would be noticed by the previewers. Moreover the fact that minor civs were the first announcement just indicates how old the announcement is and decreases the reliability of the information contained therein.

	02-05-2001 02:21									#162
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Wow, 5 pages ... this thread will be locked soon.

Anyway, in the light of the new information, there is probably no use for the thread anymore.

	02-05-2001 02:43									#163
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

FINAL NOTE:

I (though I was not alone )appologise for causing all this fuss needlessly, when Firaxis has already implemented what we wanted.

	02-05-2001 04:54									#164
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Damn, I hope this is true....

	02-05-2001 04:55									#165
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*DP*
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited May 02, 2001).]

	02-05-2001 04:55									#166
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Not to be a naysayer, but just `cause there's 8 available dosn't mean it will be editable in the text files. Someone might have to hack the code or something... Still it would seem strange for them not to make the option available.

Why lock long threads anyway? Isn't that just stopping the busiest and most popular discussions? ::scratches head::

Joe

	02-05-2001 05:06									#168
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Me too

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Its okay to smile; you're in America now

	02-05-2001 06:13									#171
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That's indeed a possibility, Imran, albeit IMO unlikely. I didn't explicitely say that there definitely are not minor civs in Civ 3, but I maintain that it is unlikely.
I guess we will have to see what Firaxis has to say about this.

	02-05-2001 07:56									#172
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possible OPTION for 15 civs........... WOOHOO!

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"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything."
-Thomas A. Edison

	02-05-2001 07:59									#173
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Where did the info on minor civs come from??? Is it confirmed? or are we just talking about the new barbarians (with cities)?

	02-05-2001 08:58									#174
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It was the first confirmed piece of information recieved by us on this site by Jeff Morris. They haven't told us anything else about it. If the Barbarians are the Minor Civs, then Jeff lied to us (Barbarians aren't Minor Civs as we said in 'The List').

	02-05-2001 11:01									#175
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Then why haven't they replied to this (5 page) thread? Aren't they monitoring this topic? It seems that they could clear this up in a minute if what you say is correct, Imran. Only the threat of an organized boycott of Civ 3 will force their hand. Why don't you embrace the power of the (organized) market?
[This message has been edited by techumseh (edited May 02, 2001).]

	02-05-2001 11:38									#176
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How many responses at ALL are posted by Firaxis. In a year, there have been, perhaps a grand total of 50 Firaxis posts. They just don't post here, and I don't think they spend every waking hour at these forums as well. They will announce major things, and that is a major thing.

You can boycott if you want. Civ3 will still sell a million copies. Don't be so arrogent to think that you and you alone are the Civ fans out there.

	02-05-2001 12:55									#177
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What are they doing the biggest limitation to me making MODs was the 7 civs rule. They should at least have the option for people to use more than seven especially if they have a more powerful computer. We should not be limited because of others, You could simple have the systems power limit the number of civ. But with a limit of 14, as above this would in my opinion would reduce from the game.

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	03-05-2001 09:49									#178
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I hope this will be clarified in the next update.

	04-05-2001 22:44									#179
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If you don't like 7 civs (and no one does) then be sure to tell them that. If we flood Firaxis with e-mails they'll listen.

Some email addresses i've found:

askthecivteam@firaxis.com
jmorris@firaxis.com
dmagaha@firaxis.com

Everyone write them an e-mail, make them thoughtful and explain why you want more than 7 players. Do it and do it now. Sooner we get it in, the less likely it'll be set in stone already. A massive response to anything will certainly change their minds, now folks its time to e-mail like mad!!!