27-05-2002 02:43									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The trial just started. Aparantly the EU anti-trust commision thinks the US is too lenient on MS, and is pressing for harder actions against the company.

When did this trial start?
Can you show me some links?
Is it as laughable as the US trial?

quote: Turnover. What else? And who cares about cash reserves?

Most companies tend to care about how much cash they have. It's part of running a business, you know? The goal is to get the most money possible, not most employees.

Turnover? Employee turnover?

	27-05-2002 02:47									#62
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The trial just started. Aparantly the EU anti-trust commision thinks the US is too lenient on MS, and is pressing for harder actions against the company.

I agree with the EU on this one.

	27-05-2002 02:49									#63
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sony is ranked nr30. MS isn't in the top50.

	27-05-2002 02:49									#64
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The EU is going to have one helluva time doing much of anything to an American company aside from increasing taxes or something...

Oh well, let them have their power kick.

The US was not to lenient on MS, the US just focused on the wrong things.

What's the basis of the EU anti-trust trial? That Windows costs too much? (even though costs have been stable for about a decade now?)

	27-05-2002 02:50									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: I agree with the EU on this one.

So do I


is hell freezing over?

	27-05-2002 02:51									#66
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Sony is ranked nr30. MS isn't in the top50.

In terms of WHAT?
Employees?!
Revenue?!

Last time I checked Microsoft was still the posterboy for companies. EXTREMELY thick profit margins, continued growth.

Last time I checked Sony only had one of their divisions turn a profit last year (Computer Entertainment -- PS2)

	27-05-2002 02:54									#67
	Tired of ads?

I'd really love to know where you get your figures, Marcus, because nothing is even close to agreeing with you.

http://specials.ft.com/ft500/may2001/FT31FEOVHMC.html

Top global companies at April 30 2001 in terms of Market Capital:

code:
1  1  General Electric  US  482,051.80  240  
2  5  Microsoft  US  362,980.10  977  
3  3  Exxon Mobil  US  306,222.80  78  
4  4  Pfizer  US  273,384.30  480  
5  7  Citigroup  US  250,730.70  810  
6  6  Wal Mart Stores  US  231,301.60  524  
7  -  AOL Time Warner  US  214,528.90  535  
8  10  Royal Dutch/Shell  UK/Neth  210,622.20  78  
9  9  Intel  US  207,653.20  936  
10  16  NTT DoCoMo  Japan  206,349.60  678  
11  18  Intl Business Machines  US  202,738.90  932  
12  15  BP  UK  201,708.40  78  
13  8  Vodafone  UK  197,556.10  678  
14  11  American Intl Group  US  189,412.30  839  
15  13  Merck  US  174,948.20  480  
16  19  GlaxoSmithKline  UK  166,265.10  480  
17  12  Nokia  Finland  155,355.00  938  
18  21  Verizon Communications  US  148,884.90  673  
19  17  SBC Communications  US  140,320.80  673  
20  24  Johnson & Johnson  US  134,883.10  480  
21  2  Cisco Systems  US  123,553.10  938  
22  25  Toyota Motor  Japan  122,599.30  311  
23  23  HSBC  UK  122,141.90  810  
24  22  Coca-Cola  US  114,876.10  418  
25  26  Novartis  Switzerland  112,084.90  480 

	27-05-2002 02:54									#68
	Inflate your Upload Space

I believe it's about MS bundling of products (like explorer in windows). Some other stuff too, have to look it up


Fortune's Global 500, the world's largest companies (revenue)

Sony: 30th (66,158.4 million USD)
MS: 201st (22,956.0 million USD)

It's clear who's the biggest.

	27-05-2002 02:56									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

from the OFFICIAL Fortune500 website:

GLOBAL 500
The World's Largest Corporations

http://www.fortune.com/lists/G500/index.html

	27-05-2002 02:56									#70
	Tired of ads?

Fortune 500 lists in Revenues, not in Market Capital.

Revenues are trivial, market capital is not, when dealing with size.

	27-05-2002 02:56									#71
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

it shows Sony is 3 times the size of MS

	27-05-2002 02:57									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was talking about Revenues. And size is measured in revenues.

	27-05-2002 02:58									#73
	Increase the size of your Attachments

BTW, Microsoft is 72 on the Fortune 500 (not 201 -- where'd you pull that from?)
25B in revenues.

Sony's not even listed.

	27-05-2002 03:01									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Revenues mean jack ****.
All market capital!

	27-05-2002 03:01									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

LOL.

DUH


Fortune500 lists only US companies!

Look at Global500

	27-05-2002 03:03									#76
	Tired of ads?

Yes yes, I see that now.

Still, revenues don't mean size, it means volume of sales.

Company size is determined by market capital. In which MS is most certainly way ahead of Sony.

What do you know of economics?

	27-05-2002 03:05									#77
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

clearly more than you

I don't go looking for Sony in the Fortune500 rankings.

	27-05-2002 03:06									#78
	Tired of ads?

I was looking at a chart that said "2002" while yours said "1999-2000" and that's all I saw.

Revenues mean little to nothing because the costs to maintain those revenues are so much higher for most companies (Sony, Walmart).

Market capital (market cap) is the way a company's size is usually measured.

	27-05-2002 03:11									#79
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

here on the business news we usually get profit, turnover and the increase/decrease in them. Market capital is usually mentioned among other things, but it doesn't has the focus. Also not surprising that Fortune bases it's lists on revenue, and not on market cap, when listing the biggest companies.

and yes I know that says nothing about it's performance, but it is the measure for it's size.

	27-05-2002 03:11									#80
	Suffering from ads?

Choosing between the evil satan of software and Sony, I would still choose Evil Satan of Software (...MSFT)

	27-05-2002 03:13									#81
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus here on the business news we usually get profit, turnover and the increase/decrease in them. Market capital is usually mentioned among other things, but it doesn't has the focus. Also not surprising that Fortune bases it's lists on revenue, and not on market cap, when listing the biggest companies. and yes I know that says nothing about it's performance, but it is the measure for it's size.

It's a measure of size of volume of sales, not size of the company or the company's clout in the marketplace.

And what do you mean turnover? Here in North America turnover tends to mean employee turnover, which means higher turnover rates are bad since people are fleeing the company on a regular basis.

And profits, you say?
Since Sony nearly posted a loss last year, and MS posted record profits....I wonder....

	27-05-2002 03:13									#82
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

and you know why people vote on MS?

posters usually have Sony stuff at home, as well as MS stuff. For some reason, the Sony stuff is usually working rather well, and the MS stuff, well, isn't. Add to that the monopoly MS has, and is abusing, and you got yourself a winner. Sure Sony does some ugly crap too, but the word most closely asociated with "anti-trust" is Microsoft.

	27-05-2002 03:15									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

turnover = revenue

in dutch "omzet"

quote: and MS posted record profits....I wonder....

Duh. they have no competition in the market.

	27-05-2002 03:18									#84
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Just some fun figures for profits from the year 2000:
Sony: $2.40B (on revenue of $66B)
Microsoft: $20B (on revenue of $23B)

	27-05-2002 03:21									#85
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wouldn't expect anything else. getting profit is so much easier when you have a monopoly.

	27-05-2002 03:23									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus posters usually have Sony stuff at home, as well as MS stuff. For some reason, the Sony stuff is usually working rather well, and the MS stuff, well, isn't. Add to that the monopoly MS has, and is abusing, and you got yourself a winner. Sure Sony does some ugly crap too, but the word most closely asociated with "anti-trust" is Microsoft.

Yeah, and it's a shame since the anti-trust trial in the US has been laughable. It's all based upon hearsay and people whining, and when it came to produce facts and proof to the judge they were all empty handed.

And I quite enjoy the Xbox, Windows XP, and Office XP. No complaints from me.

Although I also quite like my Sony WEGA XBR TV.

But my PS2 pissed me off. They overcharged for it and created artificial supply shortages to increase publicity on launch, and it's got some of the worst design ideas ever conceived. 4MB video RAM?! No easy way to anti-alias?! No easy way to reduce flicker?! Power button on the BACK?! 16 graphics pipes with the memory bandwidth to feed four of them?! No multi-texturing support?!

Not to mention the high CD prices Sony helps maintain, as well as high DVD prices and boxoffice prices.

	27-05-2002 03:24									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus I wouldn't expect anything else. getting profit is so much easier when you have a monopoly.

If you'd look at the actual balance sheet, you'd see that it's not the monopoly factor that keeps their profits up.

Software has incredibly high margins. It's phenomenal. While Sony is stuck in physical, tangible objects they've got HUGE costs to revenues accordingly, whereas MS has the cost to develop upgrades to software, press a CD, and box it. Tada.

Most software companies have incredibly high margins like MS. It's a far better business model.

	27-05-2002 03:29									#88
	Suffering from ads?

loads of software companies now don't have any profit at all, due to the collapse of the market.

MS is of course a notable exception. why? monopoly.

	27-05-2002 03:30									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

BTw, you haven't mentioned the sheer size of the XBox. It's way to big and bulky for me. I simply don't have any room for it

	27-05-2002 03:35									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus BTw, you haven't mentioned the sheer size of the XBox. It's way to big and bulky for me. I simply don't have any room for it

It's the size of a VCR. What kind of shanty do you live in?

It works great, it fits on a home theatre rack right above my VCR and below my DVD player. And it works like the other devices too. Power button on the FRONT, tray slides out the FRONT.

The reason why the Xbox is so big is because you get more with it, such as the built in hard drive, ethernet, dolby digital encoder, and a big reprogrammable GPU chip.

I can't wait until you start *****ing about the sheer size of your PS2 with the external HDD and Ethernet addons. Not to mention that it'll cost you nearly the price of an Xbox alone just to get those addons and still have the inferior graphics and sound.