25-05-2002 17:54									#1
	MoM: Favorite traits? Suffering from ads?

What are your favorite traits?

Mine:
-Warlord: anybody likes that trait
-Channeler: EXCELLENT trait! You always have enough mana
-Archmage: good trait for 1 point

I usually take Archmage & Channeler as combo.
That way I can use magic extensively on battlefield.

And that put more that 50% of my mana to power.
Use mainly buildings for research fund.
And just a little funds to mana reserve (I usually convert gold to mana if needed)

	26-05-2002 03:24									#2
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I was alway fond of the artificer. Archmage is cool. Never use warlord since I use heroes and not critters.

	28-05-2002 01:57									#3
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Artificer and Runemaster are EASILY the best for mana production.

	28-05-2002 03:26									#4
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Yeah, that was a nice combo. The cool thing with MOM retorts was that certain combos were worth a lot more than their parts.

	28-05-2002 15:23									#5
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One thing I've never understood... why does the divine and infernal power cost 2 pics?

I've never found any use for them..??? They are my least favourite retorts...

I like warlord, alchemy, archmage and node mastery...

	28-05-2002 16:13									#6
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I find those retorts overpriced as well.

But then, I don't think warlord's worth it either.

	29-05-2002 13:17									#7
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alchemy always. The rest depends on mood. I like charismatic when I want to get a fast game (heroes earlier), but it's expensive for what it does. Myrran is good in order to play dwarves.
Warlord is also good on heroes, since they get one more level and thus level up faster to demigod status.

	29-05-2002 13:37									#8
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Warlord actually is worth the two pics:

when comparing elite&ultra-elite;
ultra-elite has +1 to-hit, +1 defence and +1 resistance to ALL OF YOUR REGULAR UNITS!

Well, this of course is a crappy retort, if you only rely on summoned creatures... But when I play, I almost never summon creatures, thus my defences are regular units (spearmen, swordsmen, halberdiers, pikemen, bowmen, ect.), so the bonus elite->ultra-elite is quite handy

	29-05-2002 13:59									#9
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I only go for warlord when I play with Death magic. It does make all those free undead troops nifty indeed.

But otherwise, I play almost exclusively with heroes, so no warlord retort for me.

	29-05-2002 18:24									#10
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What do you think about Channeling?

Two benefits:
-mana upkeep is HAVLED (good if you are summoner)
-you spend less mana for spells used in combat outside your fortress (HUGE befenit for me)

	29-05-2002 18:36									#11
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Channeling has two drawbacks (for me):
- costs 2 pics
- i rarely use summoned creatures.

But if I ever try to play with summons, I think I would want this pic

	29-05-2002 19:31									#12
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Warlord is too expensive, but fun.

	29-05-2002 19:44									#13
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Channeling:
Mana upkeep halved: Well, alchemy effectively gives you that for 1 pick, since you can change twice as much gold into mana. I tend to be pretty rich all the game in MOO, so all my mana comes from gold.
Spells outside fortress: Yes it is a bit of an advantage, but again, I find that I am more often hindered by my proficiency (max amount of mana I can use in a fight) than by the multiplier. I'd rather use archmage there.

	30-05-2002 00:08									#14
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I agree. Channeling is good, but not good enough if your play style doesn't rely heavily on summoned critters. Which I don't.

And since my play style relies heavily on heroes, I rather think artificer is a must.

	30-05-2002 00:56									#15
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Channaling:
It's not all about summons.
Enhacnments are cheeper for upkeep too.
(so you can use it on heroes)

You save a LOT of mana by spending less mana in combat outside fortress.

And if you add Archmage in combination (more mana for use per combat), you get a realy powerfull spellcaster.

And this combo makes Alchemy a little bit redudant (gold to mana part, not magical weapons), since you'll have a lot of mana anyway.

	30-05-2002 13:06									#16
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Yeah, I guess. I'm just greedy for more books.

	31-05-2002 11:45									#17
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Ect, Warlord is expensive, but not too expensive... all regular units and heroes are better...
I think that Myrran (3 pics) is too expensive. It gives you the opition for myrran races. It gives you 5 more mana. But it also gives you more hostile environment to start playing (much more difficult neutral cities, nodes and lairs).

	31-05-2002 13:20									#18
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I agree on Myrran. Expensive and more difficult, and the races aren't all that.

But as for woarlord, while heroes get a bost, they get that boost anyway soon enough without it. The boost is far more valuable for regular troops - and if your gameplay doesn't rely on them, warlord is just not worth it.

	31-05-2002 13:29									#19
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BTW, I cannot remember, can heroes reach Demi-god -level without warlord-retort?

	31-05-2002 14:18									#20
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Yup. If they couldn't, warlord would be much more interesting.

	31-05-2002 15:30									#21
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The favourite pics mostly depends on the type of game you are playing (what kind of 'rules' you set for you); for instance channeler is a must, if you allow yourself only summoned creatures to leave cities... or myrran-warlord-alchemist-famous-charismatic if you play without casting a single spell...

Other interesting retort-combos:
node mastery & mana focusing - increased mana producing & discount on spells (rarely run out of mana)
node mastery & nature/sorcery/chaos mastery - a ton of mana from single type of node!
channeler & archmage - unbeatable combat wizard from the beginning
famous & white magic - cast just cause -> instantly 20 fame! (reduced army upkeep & increased chance to hire some GOOD heroes - like malleus)

	31-05-2002 16:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo channeler & archmage - unbeatable combat wizard from the beginning

My favorite.
Especialy with CHAOS magic.

Fire Elementals from start.

Gargoyle (fly+high def.) + Vortex combo very quickly.

	31-05-2002 18:02									#23
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But has anyone ever played with INFERNAL/DIVINE power? Maybe I should try one game to check out this retort... what was it? doubled mana prod & unrest control from religious buildings (shrines, temples, parthenons & cathedrals)... hmmm... I should try to find time to test this.

	31-05-2002 22:38									#24
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Those retorts sure look weak on paper. I'm sure I've chosen them sometimes, but I can't really recall. Try them out, by all means, and let us know how they are.

	03-06-2002 18:36									#25
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I tried the divine power last weekend, but I couldn't play a decent game. I started 5 games, and all the time the wandering monsters were the pain on my neck! I just couldn't make cities! ARGGGHHH! Holy crap that was annoying.

And isn't it amazing... whenever you meet any opponent, he/she has atleast 2 heroes. In those games mentioned above I played almost 100 turns... NO HEROES APPEARED - it wasn't about lack of money (one was with dwarfs - home city near a gold mine )... so what was it about???


AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!

	04-06-2002 01:38									#26
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Sometimes you just don't get heroes. That's why I usually beeline for Summon Hero - it's the only cost-effective way to get Malleus or Fang...

	05-06-2002 14:01									#27
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OK... I started another Divine game, this time on myrran - with dwarves...

This divine bonus really starts working, when you conquer other cities with other races. It reduces more unrest, and you really get the mana surge, when you start building temples, panthenons and cathedrals... thus my choise of race was poor... dwarfs can only build shrines and temples.

But I don't think that I will ever play a divine/infernal game again... it's sooo boooriiiinggg....

	05-06-2002 15:08									#28
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Yeah, any trait that emphasizes MM intensive ways of playing is.

	05-06-2002 16:53									#29
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper ...emphasizes MM intensive ways of playing...

Okay, you lost me. What MM?

	06-06-2002 00:15									#30
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Micromanagement!