27-05-2002 21:01									#1
	Possible Constitution Got spare money?

I thought that the Democracy Game might work better if we had a well-defined constitution that clearly explained how everything was supposed to work. This is my draft:

NOTE: This was originally written for the civfanatics democracy game, so some of the numbers might not work here, but that's minor stuff which is easily revised.

Democracy Game Constitution

"We the people of the United Apolytonia in order to form a more perfect Civ2 game, establish lots of polls, ensure domestic controversy, provide for the common amusement, promote the general post count, and secure the illusion of importance to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United Apolyton."



Article 1: The Presidency

Section 1: The President

The President is the Chief Executive. In any situation the President may ask to be incuded in the decision-making process, and is the sole authority in most final decisions. Except where specifically noted, the President has veto power, but is encouraged not to use it. The President is responsible for playing the actual game and holding turn chats while doing so.

Section 2: The Vice President

The Vice President is responsible for exercising the powers of the President when the President is for whatever reason incapable of doing so.


Article 2: The Cabinet

Section 1: Department Heads

The Secretary of War is responsible for presenting the President and citizens with a detailed report on the state of the military. The Secretary of War should be present at all discussions regarding the construction, deployment, or use of military units, as well as the placement of cities and forts. The Secretary of War posts all polls regarding the deployment of military units or wonder construction.

The Foreign Minister is responsible for presenting the President and citizens with a detailed report on relations with other nations and our espionage capabilities regarding them. The Foreign Minister should be present at all discussions regarding the construction, deployment, or use of all Diplomats/Spies, or wonder construction.

The Secretary of the Interior is responsible for providing the President and citizens with a detailed report on all internal and external trade routes, the location and status of all settlers, the production queue of each city, the status of each city (Is it in WLT*D, normal, or revolt?), tax allocation, gold/turn, available food caravans, wonder opportunities, and a list of the supply/demand in every city, including foreign cities. The Secretary of the Interior should be present at all discussions regarding internal or external trade, settler allocation, city production, city creation, or wonder construction.

The Science Advisor is responsible for providing the President and citizens with a detailed report on all possible research paths, noting the military, wonder, and other benefits in choosing each path. The Science Advisor should be present at all discussions regarding research choices or wonder construction.

The Expansion Minister is responsible for providing the President and citizens with a detailed report on potential new city sites, our capability to get settlers there, and our exploration capacity. The Expansion Minister should be present at all discussions regarding exploration, city creation, or wonder construction.

Section 2: Deputy Deparment Heads

Deputy Department Heads are not required postitions. They are appointed by the Department Heads. There can be one deputy deparment head for each department. The Deputy Department Head carries out all of the functions of the Department Head when the Department Head is for any reason incapable of doing so.

Section 3: Sub-Department Heads

Sub-Department Heads are not required postitions. They are appointed by the Department Heads.

For the War Department:

The Sub-Secretary of the Army is responsible for providing the Secretary of War with all information pertinent to our ground forces. There may not be a Sub-Secretary of the Army until both Horseback Riding and Bronze Working are discovered.

The Sub-Secretary of the Navy is responsible for providing the Secretary of War with all information pertinent to our naval forces. There may not be a Sub-Secretary of the Navy until Map Making is discovered.

The Sub-Secretary of the Air Force is responsible for providing the Secretary of War with all information pertinent to our air forces. There may not be a Sub-Secretary of the Air Force until Flight is discovered.

For the Department of Foreign Affairs:

The Sub-Minister of Diplomats is responsible for providing the Foreign Minister with all information pertinent to our diplomats and the information we know about other nations through embassies. There may not be a Sub-Minister of Diplomats until Writing is discovered.

The Sub-Minister of Espionage is responsible for providing the Foreign Minister with all information pertinent to our spies. There may not be a Sub-Minister of Espionage until Espionage is discovered.

For the Department of the Interior:

The Sub-Secretary of Trade is responsible for providing the Secretary of the Interior with all information pertinent to foreign and domestic trade, including a list of all trade routes and a list of the supply and demand in all cities, foreign and domestic. There may not be a Sub-Secretary of Trade until Trade is discovered.


Article 3: States and Governors

Section 1: States

States are regional administrative areas which may contain no more than 5 cities. Each state has a governor who is the Chief Executive of that state. Each state can formulate local policy in relation to defense, trade, city improvement construction, and settler allocation.

Section 2: Governors

Governors are the Chief Exucutives of states. The governor is responsible for presenting the President and the citizens with a detailed report on all information pertinent to his or her state. The governor has the sole right to make decisions regarding martial law. The governor should be present at all discussions regarding city improvement construction, unit production, military unit deployment, settler allocation, and wonder construction in his or her state.

Article 4: Elections

Elections for President and Deparment Heads will be held every 30 days, and the polls will be open for two days. To be in the running for a post, you must be nominated and seconded. Nomination time will be in the three days preceeding the opening of the polls. The nomination time occurs during the term of the previous administration, but the game is not played while the polls are open. A person may be a candidate for only one office at a time. Elections are won by simple plurality. If there is a tie, those not tied will be out of the running and there will be another two-day voting period. This will continue until there is a winner. If the election comes to a two-person tie or goes on too long will be ended by rock-paper-scissors or something.

Article 5: Tasks that require special authorization

Section 1: Declaring War

To declare war on another country there must be a poll in which at least 20 people vote and at least 60% of the votes are for war.

Section 2: Negotiating Peace

To negotiate peace there must be a poll in which at least fifteen people vote and at least 60% of the votes are for attempting to negotiate peace. Decisions on specific deals during negotiations will be made during the turn chat.

Section 3: Wonder Construction

To begin construction of a wonder there must be a poll in which at least ten people vote and the wonder with a simple plurality will win. There must be a second poll regarding at which city the wonder should be constructed, but this poll is a normal poll.

Section 4: Nuclear Weapons

To use nuclear weapons, for the first time there must be a poll in which at least 25 people vote and at least 75% of the votes are for using nukes. Each subsequent use only requires 15 voters and at least 60% of the votes. If we are nuked first then the first authorization is bypassed and authorization is the same as subsequent nukes. If the decision must be made during the turn chat, authorization will be given by rules determined during the chat.

Last edited by Kuciwalker on 27-05-2002 at 21:46

	27-05-2002 21:06									#2
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Actually, I voted for number 2.

	27-05-2002 21:17									#3
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That Burn it! is from one of you AAAC guys, isn't it?

	27-05-2002 21:25									#4
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i don't think the game will ever have enough dedicated players to fill half of the roles you outlined.
you've got the secretary of the interior doing the trade and expansion/city planners job, sounds like a whole lot of work to me.

also, i didn't see anything about term limits or the historian in your constitution.

	27-05-2002 21:30									#5
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quote: i don't think the game will ever have enough dedicated players to fill half of the roles you outlined

That's why most of them are optional.

This is open to revision and addition. I posted it because I wanted suggestions. We probably should talk about that historian and term limits. I think the historian shouldn't be elected with everyone else and be a cabinet member; he/she should just sort of do what JRabbit is doing, as well as compiling the individual cabinet member's reports into one single report. Term limits are still far too controversial to put in there, even if this is very wet clay, not stone.

	27-05-2002 23:18									#6
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BURN IT!!!!!!!!!! The resrictiveness and strictness of the constitution at civfanatics is the whole reason I started the AAAC!!!!!!!!

	27-05-2002 23:29									#7
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Look around the forum before you make polls like this: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=50479

The idea of a constitution is being discussed and has been discussed for a few weeks but it's slowing down because of elections

	27-05-2002 23:41									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've seen this thread. However, as far as I know this is the first actual draft of a constitution for the democracy game.

	27-05-2002 23:59									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

THe way I see, it, we're working on a constitution, and then you suddenly come with a full-blown proposal on a separate thread. And the proposal isn't even very much like what we're working on !

	28-05-2002 00:46									#10
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BURN IT!!! As the most senior Council member of the AAAC, I firmly believe that we make the rules up as they become important, else we lose the fun of the game.

* MrWhereItsAt sings We don't need no, Consitution!

Beware of those who would have us sign "contracts" or "Constitutions", for in their heart a Capitalist lies waiting to strike.

	28-05-2002 02:10									#11
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As I said, it was originally for civfanatics. These are my ideas, and if they don't resemble yours it's because a) they aren't and b) you haven't thought up many concrete ideas (not an insult). Your focus has been mostly on some general areas, whereas mine is on making it very clear who does what and how.

	28-05-2002 03:09									#12
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BURN IT

Why? because I think it's the second time I see it and I wanted to burn it the first time

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Your focus has been mostly on some general areas, whereas mine is on making it very clear who does what and how.

I think we have quite a clear view on who does what...and as far as I know we haven't had any problems with it.
It might not be as strickt but it makes it easy,and easy rules are better to remember.

btw there is some work in process about a constitution and it's doing fine.

Shade

	28-05-2002 03:34									#13
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The reason we dont have any official info on "who does what and how" is because we don' want to be strict about it! Other than clarifications and stuff from time to time about Imp. expansion vs city planner and what the VP does everyone understands how it works.

	28-05-2002 17:52									#14
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I nominate Skywalker to become a member of the committee studying rules and possible constitution. Let the rules-mongers talk with their own kind! Get thee all to that thread and begone from this one!

	28-05-2002 18:39									#15
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I voted to burn it (there being no kinder option to say "no"). I don't think we want competing constitutions floating around while the asssigned Constitutional Committee is working on their proposal.

I suggest that you join the ongoing discussions there as the best way for you to get some of your ideas incorporated into the version that we will all want to vote on later.

	28-05-2002 19:23									#16
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Burn It too the ground.


Although it would be helpful to new members. It seems too rigid. it's also a waste of alot of time that should be spent planning our next move not on how, when, where, and why everything works.

	29-05-2002 12:23									#17
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/out of game character mode

skywalker, this is not the first attempt made here to create a straightforward Constitution/set of rules. The idea has been disagreed with before. The reason for this is that no-one sees any need for deciding every little aspect of what everyone must do. We have a set of responsibilities for each of the Ministers and some rules to follow, all detailed in my thread "All important decisions to date". Beyond this there has been no need for anything else.

This last term, with increasing complexity in the game as we advance further, I started a Constitution Committee and thread for raising issues that come up/will come up very soon. The Committee decides what the options on a certain issue are and then polls for a decision. So far, this has only been needed for deciding how many consecutive times someone can be in the Council before they must have a break (in order to let everyone who wants a go, have a go).

If you have some questions/ changes to put to the people, please post in that thread or PM me and we'll poll on them!

Concerned for your welfare.
VP,
MrWIA.

	30-05-2002 00:23									#18
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I voted burn it, I dont believe we need a constitution for this game.

	30-05-2002 00:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I don't think we want competing constitutions floating around while the asssigned Constitutional Committee is working on their proposal.

It just wouldn't be real enough if there weren't 50 different proprosals out there for one unimportant thing

On the other hand Im with the AAAC on this one
!!Burn It!!

	30-05-2002 00:57									#20
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[UNDERSTATEMENT]It seems that popular opinion is slightly against me.[/UNDERSTATEMENT]

Anyway, I thought that, while most of the things are understood and don't need to be written down, an important function this constitution includes is for comprehensive reports on every aspect of the game, which makes it much easier for people to find out what's going on.

	30-05-2002 02:34									#21
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atawa, space05us, join the AAAC!

	30-05-2002 02:39									#22
	Remove this text

i was thinking about it

	30-05-2002 02:50									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks for the invite but I'll stay an independant

Party's are just as bad for the game as constitutions IMHO.

But maybe we can combine those 2 couses......

	30-05-2002 16:24									#24
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We need change it a bit, do some fine tuning!