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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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Mr. Fun
However, I simply disagree --- how can a teeanger relate with a significantly older adult in an intimate/romantic relationship??
I've known several who at age 16-17 had casual sex with significantly older adults. It's not the norm of course, but it's very much possible for some people. Of course, they were mostly doing it for the pure sexual part.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
The age of consent is set because MOST people are deemed to be mature at that age, to the point of giving consent to have sex while knowing the consequences. |
You get sex education in school. Normally at the age of 12 everyone is informed about every detail there is. That would fit perfectly the definition of knowing the consequences.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
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Speaking as someone who first had intercourse at age 13, I can say that when children are sexual at such a young age it usually means that something is very wrong. Usually it's sexual abuse, neglect or a combination of the two that leads children to seek out something so intense to occupy themselves with. If your 13 or 14 year old is having sex it should be a shot across the bow. There isn't time to prevent something from happening, something has already happened to your child and you had better do something about it sooner rather than later, for both of your sakes.
When younger people are attracted to and seek out older people it is usually to find a substitute for what they are missing at home, ie parents. I don't subscribe to the 'scheming teen' pornographic view of these relationships. Sure teens are more venal than average, and combined with their lack of concern for consequences they can be very aggressive. Nonetheless I fail to see how a teenager could 'take advantage' of an older person who wasn't themselves very developmentally crippled. Teenagers are extremely obvious, and it would take someone whose life experiences and mindset approached theirs to fall for it in the face of moral and legal peril. If you are an adult, then society puts the onus on you to see that you obey the law or face the consequences, regardless of your own state of mind. Growing up is not just a good idea, it's vital to having the judgement to stay out of jail.
I do understand that many adult (males anyway) are attracted to teenagers. It's pretty natural when you think about it, as most people probably had their first sexual experience with (another) teenager, and certainly at least fantasized about their more attractive peers during this time of their life. Attraction is not fate however, and acting on an attraction like this is not merely some great lay for you and a rite of passage for your young partner. You are in fact imprinting an unhealthy relationship model on your teen 'babe', and you are also doing nothing to advance your own development, which should be your pressing concern if you are behaving in this fashion.
As far as I am concerned, the age of consent (sex acts between people that age would not be illegal per se) should be 16 years of age, with the important caveat that as a minor your parents should still have a say in the matter should they become aware of it. I would be against letting anyone 3 years older than any minor have sex with a minor, which in my view should be statutory rape. This will give the government the ammunition it needs to intervene in situations that some parents should but won't (young teens and children engaging in sex) while allowing normal teens to develop their sexuality at a healthy pace, and protecting all teens to some extent from exploitation by sad a$sed older men who need to grow up and see that sex is not merely a form of recreation.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
Maybe it's different in Europe, but Canadian and American sex ed is more like a strictly biological "how are babies made" not about consequences. |
So which consequences are you speaking about? Thought you meant pregnacy, or the various deceases you can get.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:19
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EDIT:
fallacy argument deleted
Last edited by MrFun on 29-05-2002 at 22:22
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
If sexual relations between a 15 year old boy and a 40 year old man is morally right, then that is your opinion.
However, I simply disagree --- how can a teeanger relate with a significantly older adult in an intimate/romantic relationship??  |
Morally right or no is irrelevant. Many feel any homosexual relationship is morally wrong, but you certainly wouldn't say there should be laws prohibiting it?
Age differences are one thing, but such laws (like in Britain) also effected those of the same ages, prohibiting a 16 year old from sleeping with another one. While I'm not in favor of such behavior in general (as such things are, indeed, rarely done responsibly), making it illegal is, IMO, blatantly unconstitutional. I'm not in favor of prostitution in general, but it is also something I think shouldn't be illegal.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
First off, sex between two mutually consenting adults is definitely legitimate -- no matter what sexual orientation the two adults are.
But, I draw the line when it involves sex between a 10 year old and a 45 year old, or a 15 year old and a 40 year old.
I want a society that has SOME boundaries --- where do you draw your boundaries, Boris?? |
What were talking about here is what defines "mutually consenting." To say a 16 year old can't consent and isn't intelligent enough to make a decision is bullshit. They may make the wrong decision, but they are capable of making the right one.
No one is arguing here about 10 year olds. We're talking 16, and IMO 16 is as good as 18 in terms of sexual maturity. Even 15. But if parents don't want their kids having sex that young, that's their responsibility, not the government to be babysitters. But when a person is physically mature enough to have sex, then they are ready to consent to it.
Now, if the instance is clearly one of coersion or abuse of authority in the sex act, of course that should be considered a crime. It's rape, same as for anyone. And I certainly draw a boundary at that.
But establishing 18 as a boundary for consentual sex is absurd, IMO. I think this further stigmatizes it, makes it "taboo," which in turn makes it all the more exciting for teens to go out do such things. So is 21 for drinking (If I can vote and be drafted, I sure as hell better have every other right of a legal adult).
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
What were talking about here is what defines "mutually consenting." To say a 16 year old can't consent and isn't intelligent enough to make a decision is bullshit. They may make the wrong decision, but they are capable of making the right one.
No one is arguing here about 10 year olds. We're talking 16, and IMO 16 is as good as 18 in terms of sexual maturity. Even 15. But if parents don't want their kids having sex that young, that's their responsibility, not the government to be babysitters. But when a person is physically mature enough to have sex, then they are ready to consent to it.
Now, if the instance is clearly one of coersion or abuse of authority in the sex act, of course that should be considered a crime. It's rape, same as for anyone. And I certainly draw a boundary at that.
But establishing 18 as a boundary for consentual sex is absurd, IMO. I think this further stigmatizes it, makes it "taboo," which in turn makes it all the more exciting for teens to go out do such things. So is 21 for drinking (If I can vote and be drafted, I sure as hell better have every other right of a legal adult). |
Yes, there is a qualitative diference between a 10 year old and 15 year old -- that is why I commented on those separately.
Physical maturity is not the only factor in determining if a person is ready for sex --- mental/emotional maturity is also an important factor.
I am flexible somewhat, as I am not opposed to 17 year old having sex with a 22 year old, for instance.
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29-05-2002 12:57
I guess the natural progression of things does not count? Asher what is the average maturity level of kids today?
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