01-06-2002 21:39									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have seen a lot of files in games with Paul, just to learn from a great player like he is. He has never cheated when rush buying was not allowed, even in bad position for him. In the way he prepare his land I think he doesn't need to use that trick, because his cities produce very fast.
I think something more is needed to put his reputation in a bad situation. The best way is showing the files.
Sorry if I have missed an inportant post about this, but my english is not good enough and I don't have the time I would like these days.

	01-06-2002 23:37									#62
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Talk about being goaded.

Gavrushka, the case I was trying to make wasn't just about honoring the strict rules of a computer game.

It was about demonstrating that a certain individual was not being honest in his responses to people. It was about demonstrating that someone wasn't being careful with his facts.

I can show you an ICQ transcript where Paul swore on his grandmothers grave that he never used ramp-up swapping. Even in this forum he changed his story and said he'd used it, but not for the last six months. I can show you a game--from a month ago--with a colosseum/destroyer swap still in his build queue.

Paul said in this forum that, as for our 4-player team games, we had not beat him in a year. I'll show you a game from a month ago in which we scored a decisive victory--and in fact that game was conceded.

Paul paut forth a mis-statement in this forum about capitols and courthouses being the same cost. This had the effect, intended or otherwise, of casting doubt on the issue. I can show you an ICQ transcript where Paul bragged about having memorized the build cost of every building and unit right into middle modern age...and then proved it to me!

On and on....more misrepresentations than you can shake a stick at. You know that old saying. "Little white lies, got one you got two?"

Sorry friends, but this conversation has made me sick. If you want to think of me as a lier, go ahead, but I think I'm done here.

Dr. Doom

	02-06-2002 00:04									#63
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well no one said you were a lier at least not me. Continue but understand it is not gameleague. We have a system for these types of problems. War of words is not it. Those game files are your proof yet where are they? You have but to post them yet you have not why?

Any rate the tourney is on and will be moderated so join in play your best and let skill decide.

http://vote.pollit.com/vote?ID=491042&vote=3&submit=Submit+Vote


http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cach...lang_en&ie=UTF8

Heh H's CTP site

Last edited by blackice on 02-06-2002 at 00:09

	02-06-2002 00:09									#64
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by faded glory size of a house gav? Get lost man...

Okay a Log Cabin??

	02-06-2002 00:12									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok here is more, Now we can have all turns saved. you just need this file nameloop Good job Secret_Doom, thanks; his page:secretdoom.hpg.com.br

This file is usefull to make one backup for all autosaves of all players. U will never loose one important turn, no more.

Take the files from the zip. Maybe with the winzip.

Procedure to use the savesbackup system:

Start a multiplayer game.
It's more eassy if you don't use timelimit. Like this you will start the backup sistems without strees

Press Alt- tab
Be carefull, You have only few seconds. You must to return quick or you will loose the connection to the lobby.

Look for the new directory (created by the autosave).
Usually there is only one "AUTOSAVE-name" there. I use to select the spanish. I use to put the name of my leader with some letters to remember this game and my enemy. For exemple: if I play with Mazaika I put Maz4 for the name. Like this the directory is eassy to find: ".......\mp\maz4"

Put the file nameloop.bat there, in that directory.
Make the nameloop.bat run (doble clik).
Give the name "xxxxx" from "AUTOSAVE-Xxxxxx" (without " ).
It's the name that you are asked for. It use to be the same name of your directory. And it'e name of the leader of your civilization. Be carefull, don't start diferent games with same name becouse the CTP can rename it.

Select the directory where you want all the files saved.
Something like "..\maz4" will be usefull to check if it is runing well during the game. But you can select this too: "c:\savedfiles\mazaikaglgame"

Continue your game
{Maybe you will need some ATL+Tab to have time to start it. The time will give you experience using it.}

Attachment: nameloop.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	02-06-2002 00:15									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Slow tips: (maybe only usefull for you to know me... go to my home page to know me more)

1- Teach other players and share your ideas. U will learn a lot while u teach.

"To teach is to learn" Japanish proverb.

2- Practice. U need to test more than one time any idea to become good using it.

' If you want to learn anything u must to make it part of your self ' Siddhartha Gautama (Budah)

'The glory is not never fall but is to get up everytime you fall' Kung fu tse (Confuncio )

3- Don't led ur enemy know your strength or your weakness because information is one of the key of war.

'war is deceit' Muhammad ibn Abdullah (Mahomet, Prophet of Islam)

A lot of years before Sun tzu in The art of war:

"All the art of war is based on the imposture. Then if you are able, pretend incapacity, if you are active pretend inactivity. If you are close pretend to be far, if you are far pretend to be close."

Ofcouse i am not meaning that u can tell to your enemy that u have X powerfull units or tecnologies to make him to stop the game and surrender. I think thats not fair in one game. That's cheating for me.

4- Be skeptical about all information and more about your own point of view. Is really hard to be sceptical if something seems important and you aren't making carefull. Remember what happened with kepler and the 8 minutes of arc.

What?? don't you know it? Go quick to see the cosmos TV serie from Carl Sagan.
Hmmm. I see, It's not eassy to find it for you...
Ok, i'll try to explain it to you.


Kepler had one theory about the universe. He thought that the orbits of planets could be descripted using perfect geometrical forms. If that was probed it would be the great new of the milenium. That probed for him the very existance of God like the perferct builder of the universe.
But when he had the good dates to make precision calculs he found one litle error. That calculs needed 8 min of the arc mistake. All of us know what meand 90º, one degree is 60 minutes of arc. Then u can imagine that 8 min of arc is really litle mistake.
And he's answer to that mistake changed the astronomy and make one big jup to science. He thought that he could not ignore that mistake and tryed new descriptions for orbits. He found the elitical orbits of every planet and discovered 3 laws of the universe. He thought there musted to be one force moving the planets and Newton dicovered it later.

The key for me here is that there is more inportance in True than in our point of view and is sometimes hard to change your mind. Be carefull with that mistake, follow Keples example.

5- Don't use the Talion law, It's not efficient. If you and your enemy loose 1000 units and nothing changed, then your strategy must be improved.

'eye by eye and all we will finish blind' Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi) [Saw in one film, but still not confirmed. I dont worri if it came from Gandhi, its still true.]

6- Don't hold your opinon on few facts. Everybody likes to decide quick with not too much information, it makes to feel like we are clever.

Some times we make bad opinion abaut one person with not enogh proves.

	02-06-2002 02:16									#67
	Game Review Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just a note about what to look for to those who will be reviewing the games (especially for anyone who ends up on the losing side).

1) Review the net gold earned and compare this with any city that has had production completed. If a particular city was not scheduled to produce a unit/improvement and then produced it, review the gold before and after to see if the sums add up. Now, when you have a 70 city empire, this is easier said than done, but that is the ONLY way to catch a ramp-up or swap.

2) Review ALL cities to look for jumps in the turns left for production. Sometimes I've noticed that a jump from say 10 turns to 8 turns happens normally due to increasing production in the empire and/or government bonuses. However, for larger items, these types of drops are not common. If one happens, does it add up with the gold figures?

3) Look for cities that just produced a settler. Has the population dropped accordingly? I have been told that there is a bug regarding settler production and crashing that will allow a size 2 city to produce a settler and still remain size 2.

4) Look at the total gold gained/spent. Does it add up? I have heard a rumor that there is a bug associated with gold creation but I have no idea if that is true... just something to watch for.

5) Look for any jumps in science. There may be a possibility that a science advancement may be achieved faster through a crash trick, but I have no idea if this is just a possibility or a reality.

6) When considering people may try look at a map during gameplay, do units all of a sudden change course and intercept enemy units for no apparent reason? Luck is a factor with that, but if there is a pattern...

Finally, let's have fair play. I see this tournament as an attempt at finding the best CTP player. If ANYONE knows of any tricks/loopholes (legal or otherwise), be adult enough to come out with them now before this thing starts.

yoda

	02-06-2002 02:31									#68
	Re: Game Review Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by yoda Just a note about what to look for to those who will be reviewing the games (especially for anyone who ends up on the losing side). 1) Review the net gold earned and compare this with any city that has had production completed. If a particular city was not scheduled to produce a unit/improvement and then produced it, review the gold before and after to see if the sums add up. Now, when you have a 70 city empire, this is easier said than done, but that is the ONLY way to catch a ramp-up or swap. 2) Review ALL cities to look for jumps in the turns left for production. Sometimes I've noticed that a jump from say 10 turns to 8 turns happens normally due to increasing production in the empire and/or government bonuses. However, for larger items, these types of drops are not common. If one happens, does it add up with the gold figures? 3) Look for cities that just produced a settler. Has the population dropped accordingly? I have been told that there is a bug regarding settler production and crashing that will allow a size 2 city to produce a settler and still remain size 2. 4) Look at the total gold gained/spent. Does it add up? I have heard a rumor that there is a bug associated with gold creation but I have no idea if that is true... just something to watch for. 5) Look for any jumps in science. There may be a possibility that a science advancement may be achieved faster through a crash trick, but I have no idea if this is just a possibility or a reality. 6) When considering people may try look at a map during gameplay, do units all of a sudden change course and intercept enemy units for no apparent reason? Luck is a factor with that, but if there is a pattern... Finally, let's have fair play. I see this tournament as an attempt at finding the best CTP player. If ANYONE knows of any tricks/loopholes (legal or otherwise), be adult enough to come out with them now before this thing starts. yoda

C..now this is the , IMHO, which counts.. for a say NET-ZERO amount on the WHO GIVES A RATS AR$E scale BUT I just wanted to say that this is how something should be handled, versus the SALEM WITCHHUNT style that has been previously displayed (Of which yours truly has been a part of I am sorry to say..well not sorry to say, I freely admit, but I am sorry I ever accused anyone) Ok, I am agreeing that this is what should happen, come forth, put the cards on the table, let all examine, then a panel can decide what is and is not acceptable!

My hats off to you folks, this is gonna be a great tourney, I aint good enuff to be a contender, but still wish for fair gameplay to be had by all.

I also agree with a previous poster, Paul should come back for the tourney, he is, again, IMHO, one of the bestest ever! If he doesnt, I think that there may be some "other" reason, than this thread to cause him not to..but hey whom am I?? I am a small crumb thats been kicked off the table and deservedly so, but even Dogs have sun shine on them thar buttcoks once in a while

Have fun folks, keep it clean and play fair!

Troll

	02-06-2002 03:06									#69
	Two more things Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Don't forget to look for public works that are completed in one turn!!!! The PW trick is very significant.

As for playing in the tournament, I plan on playing in it as long as I am invited to play. I don't care who else plays in it because now that I know what to look for in the saved games, I know it will be very difficult for anyone to be dishonest. Of course, there still may be tricks/loopholes/cheats that I don't know about, but hopefully these (if there are any) will show up in the saves.

yoda

	02-06-2002 05:15									#70
	Tired of ads?

quote: Finally, let's have fair play. I see this tournament as an attempt at finding the best CTP player. If ANYONE knows of any tricks/loopholes (legal or otherwise), be adult enough to come out with them now before this thing starts. yoda

Cheers that was what this thread was for

As for the rest covered believe me. I really doubt if someone has a trick up thier sleive they will try it here in this tourney. They will be caught besides this is about being the best not an ass*ole who can win not with tallent but a trick....nope the best be the best see how you meassure up.

Ok I hope that resolves this thanks for the tips Yoda, Doom and the rest keep them comming. The tourney is on all players welcome let's see what ya got

	02-06-2002 05:45									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Just a note about what to look for to those who will be reviewing the games (especially for anyone who ends up on the losing side).

1) Done
2) Done
3) Done
4) Yes there is and Done
5) Yes it does Done
6) Done
7)

quote: Finally, let's have fair play. I see this tournament as an attempt at finding the best CTP player. If ANYONE knows of any tricks/loopholes (legal or otherwise), be adult enough to come out with them now before this thing starts. Don't forget to look for public works that are completed in one turn!!!! The PW trick is very significant.

Amen, that was the idea of this thread.

quote: As for playing in the tournament, I plan on playing in it as long as I am invited to play. I don't care who else plays in it because now that I know what to look for in the saved games, I know it will be very difficult for anyone to be dishonest. Of course, there still may be tricks/loopholes/cheats that I don't know about, but hopefully these (if there are any) will show up in the saves.

See no reason why not on either part Doom or Paulino for that matter.

	02-06-2002 05:54									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

All right all right.....I'll post a few maps and commentary, because you know what?

Aside from making my case on a few issues, it will give the moderators of the upcoming tournament a few tips on what to look for on the ramp-up swapping issue.

I've been thinking about your earlier comment Blackice, and I think you might have hit the bullseye. I can tell you what I would do if someone was posting comments and quotes pointing out artful dodging and questionable CTP play on on my part. I would enter this tournament, where there is going to be NO chance of cheating whatsoever, and kick some ass.

And since I've left mine hanging way out in the wind....c'mon Paul, by now it's surely a tempting target...

Here's your golden opportunity to prove you really are the best, with no heckling possible.

Dr. Doom

	02-06-2002 06:22									#73
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Dr. Doom1 All right all right.....I'll post a few maps and commentary, because you know what? Aside from making my case on a few issues, it will give the moderators of the upcoming tournament a few tips on what to look for on the ramp-up swapping issue. I've been thinking about your earlier comment Blackice, and I think you might have hit the bullseye. I can tell you what I would do if someone was posting comments and quotes pointing out artful dodging and questionable CTP play on on my part. I would enter this tournament, where there is going to be NO chance of cheating whatsoever, and kick some ass. And since I've left mine hanging way out in the wind....c'mon Paul, by now it's surely a tempting target... Here's your golden opportunity to prove you really are the best, with no heckling possible. Dr. Doom

Left your WHAT HANGING OUT THERE DR.DOOM????????????????????????

	02-06-2002 07:32									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ok them Paulino1 Yoda Gav time to kick some butt Lets go. I assure you all we will microscope these games so just play fair and hard. How much more fun can it get, oh wait MONEY heh and the all mighty bragging rights.

Erica you in?

	02-06-2002 10:51									#75
	BS Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi BI and Gav,

As far as I can see this thread was necessary only to make players aware that cheating is not tolerated.

Other than that it is bullshit, absolutely unnecessary. If every game is going to be saved at every turn then any of these cheats will be exposed, ramping and tile cheats will not be possible. So what is the problem? Am I missing something here?

Come back paulno1, not everyone is against you.

Boney

	02-06-2002 11:28									#76
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by blackice [q]The tourney is on all players welcome let's see what ya got

All players welcome? I thought there was some qualifier for it? I always liked the role of underdog...

-david42one

	02-06-2002 13:01									#77
	Inflate your Upload Space

I Have a zero tolerance stance on being called a cheat
So im certainly gonna havea few issues with playing faded Glory or Doom. Dont think anyothers called me an outright cheat.

Just sat down and calculated the cost of rush buying banks from the start using that ramp swap that you metioned. The cost of a bank is previously 2250 and went down too 1632 using every conceivable building that would help. In theo that is So i htink you could get a destroyer at a cost of 1500 (using coluseum)
but any of you been able to build destroyers while still in theo well not me.
Well did the sme in commi you would get a destroyer at 3064 gold and a mill at 3237 gold. Without ramping the cost of a colluseum is 4140 gold. Well thats kinda lot of gold and if you wanna build a destroyer at a cost of 3000 gold you can do it in anygame we play i dont mind a bit as apposed for doing it at 8000 gold. But i aint gonna do it, 3000 gold is a LOT for ONE unit. So with 17 k i can build 5 destroyers from scratch yay for me, especially on that tourney map where the production count is gonna get over 100000 per turn fairly early on. Thanks doom your suggestion is genius.

So you can build mills at 3000 gold per city in commi hmmmm
still dont think its a great idea but what do i know. If i did i would have thought, since im such a great player, I would have spent every cent in doing so on mills in my weaker cities. Oh well instead i just saved up 17000 gold in probably 15 turns oh well.

Im still proclaim that i generally end up saving quite a bit of gold.
but being accused of cheating for doing so


So lets bring on this evidence against me.

Now that settler bug that yoda mentioned, where if you crash and come back in, on the next turn. Cities that have built a settler on that turn have moved up in size to 2 rather than staying on 1. HAHA wonder who told him that one when first I confermed it, lol yip me and who wanted to go back to the save so i didnt get an unfair advantage yes meeeeeee. Wow man im dishonest. Now if i was smart i would have kept silient and crashed lots at the start . Who got accused of purposely crashing to do this by doom. You guessed it mmmmmeeeee . I had kinda noticied it before but i just shrugged it off. Now im not the only one whos ever crashed, so no one else has ever mentioned this . Wow am i the smartest one here lolol I sure hope not. Cause i aint that smart ill post my University academic transcript if you dont beleive me lolol. Ive just played this game more than most, hence why im better than ALLMOST all else.

	02-06-2002 14:20									#78
	Put an end to popups!

Me in?

Ha. No. Unless I get very very bored with my newly unemployed status. ;-)

	02-06-2002 15:51									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by quinns Thanks Solver I have to get a new computer to run CivIII... It doesn't work on my 1998 personal computer .

1998!? Mine's a March 1997 PC!!! It sure runs slow when the coal gets low!

	02-06-2002 15:53									#80
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To my CTP friends:

Well I had a talk with Paul tonight, and the good news is I think we went a ways towards patching up our differences. I'm going to send him some files, and we are going to discuss them.

I'm doing my best to convince him to re-enter the tournament. This may sound strange, but I still consider this guy a friend.

Paul told me that he's still pissed off at me (guess I can't blame him), and he's worried that he might be doubted or over overscrutinized in the tournament. Not to worry Paul. You are a formidable--if somewhat cocky--CTP player. But the tournament will not be the same without you. Just relax and play your game...let the results speak for themselves. Everyone wants you back in...it won't be the same without you.

Dr. Doom

	02-06-2002 17:09									#81
	Tired of ads?

haha as a great man once said " i wanna eat your children"
I just like bit of the old trash talk, my ego really isnt that big. By the way i was only being sarcastic Mike Tyson isnt a great man What you gonna do all day erica since you are now unemployed ? Play with the kitten ?

	02-06-2002 18:21									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: he's worried that he might be doubted or over overscrutinized in the tournament. Not to worry Paul.

Not to worry all players treated equally regardless of name

Unemployed hummm lots of time to play Erica

Good to hear the two of you have decided to work it out, Doom, Paulino1.

Boney nice to see someone caught on do you want to mod a game or two?

So what other things are there to keep this tourney clean, fair and fun for all. Thanks to Yoda, Doom, paulino1 we have an extensive list now.

	02-06-2002 21:42									#83
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by blackice Thanks to Yoda, Doom, paulino1 we have an extensive list now.

Would it be possible to enshrine this list somewhere so we all (and newcomers) have easy reference to it - in a thread referenced by the Info Central thread perhaps.

	02-06-2002 21:57									#84
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway Would it be possible to enshrine this list somewhere so we all (and newcomers) have easy reference to it - in a thread referenced by the Info Central thread perhaps.

Yeah, thats a Great That way we can all compete with the bestest! ..ermm.umm..I mean so we can all know what is absolutely wrong in the community! of gaming, that way No One gets an upperhand!!

"Now Troll, dont startr nothing and there wont be nothing"..as the Apolyton god's boom to Troll orders to cease and desist all/any remarks that may lead to anyone thinking anyone cheats! Because we all know that deep down in the hearts of all players, fairness rules ...

I do have a confession to make for which I am ashamed.. about a year ago my wife was out of town..(NO NOT THAT kinda confesion!! ) but anyway, I have two PC's networked and I played as two different people online with another person, this happened several times, I felt..well.. Good that I had one civ supplying me with gold and tech, maps of my competitor, and well..I was wrong and Hey..I am sorry, it was a terrible thing to do, and well.................. I was partly inspired by F G and his gameplay, which was suspect to me, I was wrong to accuse him and then what did I do?? I did the unthinkable, I stooped to "less than honorable gameplay!"...... Ok..Im glad I got that off my chest..now I can move on with my life..all this thread was doing was make me see the err of my wys, I havent done it since and hope no one would do it, because it is wrong, I now throw myself at the feet of the jury..PUUUUUUllllll-ease 4-give me...

I promise to help expose more wrong doings..so we can all be ebetter for it!....




(Bumping F G) (psstt..dont you wanna confess now..BUDDY????? for really not cheating, but aggravating folks to the point they couldnt think of anyone or anything else?? )

Ok..Im done

Have a great day

Troll

	02-06-2002 22:16									#85
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dr. Doom1 Hold on faded glory. I hope that was more beer than brain speaking. Under NO circumstances do I want to see Paul banned from the tournament. Paul is still an excellent CTP player, as I've said, and he and Yoda are the primary contenders for the title of World's Best CTP Player. I only wish Paul would understand the importance of a stronger committment to honesty and integrity and fair play. For a long time now I considered this guy a friend, and Paul is right about one thing: we have had some epic CTP battles. I am going to sorely miss them..... Dr. Doom

The Save was not a counted Apolyton Game no internet ranking game and not a GavTourney Game. So even if he cheated it counts nothing. In my opinion paul is the world best CTP player even if some players dont want to believe that. Paul tought me a lot of things and i perfectly know that he doesnt cheat. So if you really want to bann him, you should better surch at a Tourney save for Cheats or something like that. I dont know what happend with the file of the Yodav.Paul game, but Paul must be very stupid to cheat in a game that counts nothing
If he leave the tourney the World Best CTP player cant be found!
Have good games

	02-06-2002 23:09									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by filix a GavTourney Game

Will this catch on? Will Gav's name be forever connected to the Tourney? It makes sense - they name most sports events after the sponsor.

	03-06-2002 01:25									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Two problems....

I am not called Gav

And this is not a Tournament!

	03-06-2002 02:30									#88
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

bah, 6pm drunken post

	03-06-2002 03:10									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Two problems.... I am not called Gav And this is not a Tournament!

Bah! Minor problems .

Firstly, your name is Gav, because that's what we all call you. What more is a name than a form of address ?

Secondly, he said Tourney, not Tournament - they're different (though I couldn't say exactly how). Besides, everyone's calling it 'the tourney' now - you'll never change that .

	03-06-2002 05:43									#90
	Remove this text

Conceded!

Hey my name is Gav, and this competition is a tourney.

The moon is also made of cheese, and I know it cos I made the damned thing.