31-05-2002 01:42									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang Oh and I remember really liking Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy but I read 'em a looong time ago (early HS I think) so its hard to tell if they're really good or if I was being a stupid kid (I was even dumb enough to read some of the WoT books three times :eek.

Yes I know the feeling. Ming's has over 10,000 books in his collection. I've figured I've read over 80% of them in the last 40 years. I'm sure I thought many were great when I read them, and they were really crap. The 50+ books in the Perry Rodan series (sp?) come to mind.

RAH

	31-05-2002 01:45									#32
	Remove this text

Rah


Good calls. Piers Anthony Rider on Pale Horse was a great intro to that series and the last two were also very good The one with the D Evil and the other with G(o)od were also well done (forget the actual titles).

If we were to expand to SCIFI I would also include Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant as well as the First Ender's Series book and the accompanying Ender's Shadow and Hegemon books(The middle two were mediocre IMO) , throw in The Mote in God's Eye series and Asimov's Robot and Foundation series for good measure. But since this is strictly Fantasy, scratch the above.

Og

	31-05-2002 01:48									#33
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe If we were to expand to SCIFI Og

We've already had a few threads on that subject

I just look at all the Fantasy series on my shelves... most were entertaining, but I still have to go with LOTR

But for sword and socery... I'll take the original Conan stuff by Robert E. Howard (not the crap re-edited or written by other authors)

	31-05-2002 01:49									#34
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang Tried those, got be bit turned off after the rape scene though and ended up dropping it not much past that...

I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't that scene happen in like the first 100 pages of the trilogy? I wish I had done the same. I kept thinking he would get more likable. God was I stupid.

RAH

And yes the ORIGINAL Conan stories rocked. No matter how you pronounced his name

Even though it's scifi, I like the BIO series also
But please ignore, this is for fantasy.

	31-05-2002 01:53									#35
	Put an end to popups!

LotR clearly is great.

I enjoyed the Belgariad... and confess to still liking the Mallorean, even though I was concious that it had gotten stale. I guess I just like the characters.

I really enjoyed the DeathsGate Cycle (Weiss/Hickman).

I enjoyed the Farseer and Liveship Traders books by Robin Hobb.

Oh, yeah, and the Taltos books are cool too. I love the dry humor.

-Arrian

	31-05-2002 01:58									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My wife always jokes that the there's only two differences between Fantasy and Science fiction

what do they ride. Horses or spaceships.
what do the kill with. Magic/sword or rayguns.

needless to say, she is not a big fan of either.
But since her idea of a good author is Danielle Steele.......

	31-05-2002 02:05									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

LOL

Mine reads "Barbarian at the Gates" , "Atlas Shrugged", & "Zen and the Art of Motorcylce Maintenance"

Go figure at least its not Danielle Steele


I just remembered if Conan is in there Fritz Leiber's Grey Mouser and Farfahrd (Sp?) should be considered for comic relief alone

	31-05-2002 02:07									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang Moorecock's Elric series definately also deserve a nomination.

true

	31-05-2002 02:09									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Glad to see someone besides me likes Conan. Just read through the collected original Short Stories (out now in two volumes of the Fantasy Masterworks series) and it's still bloody brilliant writing. Pacy, gory, exciting (and racist, sexist, pro-violence, but hey).

	31-05-2002 02:12									#40
	Put an end to popups!

snapy,
And the scenes where the hair on his neck would rise or his skin would crawl when he was around magic or deities, it would on mine too. Well written.

	31-05-2002 02:19									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A quick and not that well thought out ranking of the top 5 fantasy stories:

1. LotR
2. Taltos - Steven Brust (just because here it is, years later, and I'm still reading them)
3. Winter of the World trilogy - Michael Scott Rohan (there is a new fourth book, but I haven't read it)
4. Earthsea - Ursula K. Le Guin
5. A Song of Ice and Fire - George R.R. Martin

A quick and not that well thought out list of the worst:

1. All series written by authors who descended into verbal diarhea after teasing us with one or two good books and thus destroying our appreciation of anything they've written (Anthony, Eddings, Donaldson, the Wheel of Time guy, etc. et-bloody-cetera)

	31-05-2002 02:21									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LOTR of course..

The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay

The Empire trilogy by Feist & Wurts

Earthsea trilogy by LeGuin

Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card

All the Pratchett books.

Elric series by Michael Moorcock

That´s all I can think of right now...

	31-05-2002 02:22									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Oh, and chalk me down with the "Read the first book of Thomas Covenant until the Rape Scene, which was disturbing, so I stopped soon afterwards" crowd.

	31-05-2002 02:24									#44
	Support Apolyton

Only read the second page of this thread, but am surprised that no-one's mentioned Magic's Pawn by Mercedes Lackey. Damn good book.

	31-05-2002 02:27									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Oh, and chalk me down with the "Read the first book of Thomas Covenant until the Rape Scene, which was disturbing, so I stopped soon afterwards" crowd.

Chalk me down for another I should have stopped after the rape scene, but still read the entire series anyway.... ouch...

	31-05-2002 02:35									#46
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Oh, and chalk me down with the "Read the first book of Thomas Covenant until the Rape Scene, which was disturbing, so I stopped soon afterwards" crowd.

That did the trick for me also. Stupid leper

I did read "Mordants Need" though, not quite as awful as the stupid leper books. But still, I think Donaldson has self esteem issues...

	31-05-2002 02:48									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Darkwar Saga by Raymond Fiest
Taltos books by Stephen Brust
Ariel by Steven Boyett
The Sunset Warrior Trilogy by Eric Van Lustbader

and of course

LOTR

	31-05-2002 03:02									#48
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Sunset Warrior books were ruined for me by the author's name. "Van Lustbader" sounds like a porn pseudonym.

	31-05-2002 03:07									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Ming Chalk me down for another I should have stopped after the rape scene, but still read the entire series anyway.... ouch...

are you a masochist? i bought all three, got half way through the second, realized it wasn't going to get any better and gave up!



rah, your wife is right to a degree, how else do explain the emormous audience crossover between the two genres?

	31-05-2002 03:08									#50
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Echinda The Sunset Warrior books were ruined for me by the author's name. "Van Lustbader" sounds like a porn pseudonym.

Now he goes by Eric V. Lustbader

He has written quite a few books, but these and a book called Beneath An Opal Moon, which is a sequel to SW tril., are his only fantasy novels.

	31-05-2002 03:09									#51
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by reds4ever are you a masochist? i bought all three, got half way through the second, realized it wasn't going to get any better and gave up! rah, your wife is right to a degree, how else do explain the emormous audience crossover between the two genres?

Hell, in High School I read BOTH of the Thomas Covenant series!
That would be 6 books. And the second series was a little better than the first.

	31-05-2002 03:32									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Another recommendation for George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series....

	31-05-2002 04:05									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

--"I'll start it off with The wheel of time"

Decent series, but he's not doing so well in the end stages. I think his determination to write a really long series (he wants more books than L. Ron Hubbard's Mission: Earth series) is his main problem at the moment.

--"Tad Williams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn."

These are pretty decent.

--"I also liked Moorcock's Corum series a lot."

Haven't read these, but if they're anything like his Elric series I'm going to need to do it sooner or later.

--"R.A. Salvatore's Drow series can remember the name."

I've read those, and wasn't impressed. They're not bad, just... not good either. If we're talking AD&D, I'll have to stick with Chronicles and Legends from Dragonlance.

--"Terry Brooks's original Shannara series."

Eh. Those were good, upon a time. I've reread them fairly recently and didn't enjoy them near as much.

--"David Eddings' Belgariad was very good"

He tends to repeat himself rather too often. It's like he's written the same trilogy four or five times.

--"the best ='Swords' series by Fritz Lieber"

Cool, someone else has read The Book of Swords. Those are pretty good, and at one time I had the poem about the swords memorized.

--"the worst = the guy with leprosy"

Thomas Covenant, the White Gold Wielder books. Those are pretty boring.

--"I didn't like Earthsea very much"

I really enjoyed that trilogy. Le Guinn does some excellent work in them.

--"Discworld"

Best comic fantasy around. Not the only, but the best.
Although if you like a darker touch to your comedy, Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series has it beat.

--"the George RR Martin series (song of ice and fire or something)"

A Song of Ice and Fire is correct. Excellent series.

--"The Amber series (first) by Zelanzie"

Those are pretty good. Haven't read them in a while. I think I'll have to agree that the first series is better than the second.

--"Oh and I remember really liking Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy"

Those are very good, too. The Hunter is one of the better villans, and I love the magic system.

--"I really enjoyed the DeathsGate Cycle (Weiss/Hickman)."

Those are okay, but I really wish they hadn't done all that Zifnab crud. Once they started bringing him in the series went way downhill.

--"My wife always jokes that the there's only two differences between Fantasy and Science fiction"

Depends whose definitions you're using, but the one I've seen that I like goes more or less as follows:
Science-Fiction takes a set of rules and works out the consequences from there. Fantasy makes up the rules as it goes along.

--"Magic's Pawn by Mercedes Lackey. Damn good book."

Good, but not great. The rest of that trilogy doesn't improve, either.

Well, most of the things I would recommend have been covered. The major exception is The Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts. Epic fantasy that's got Wheel of Time beat hands-down, and is right up there with A Song of Ice and Fire.

Wraith
Fantasy isn't our crutch -- its arcane

	31-05-2002 04:06									#54
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Feist & Wurts Empire Series, by a wide margin.

Distanc seconds, Wurts 'wars of light and shadow' series, and Feists Magician series (up to the Krondor crap).

	31-05-2002 04:06									#55
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wraith, you beat me by a minute with Wurts

	31-05-2002 04:11									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Lord of the Rings - Never been beat. Still the most complete, epic fantasy story-telling around.

Other than that, most fantasy books are just kinda okay for me...although, I will sheepishly admit to really enjoying the Pool of Radiance series. But I was 13 or 14 when I read those, so I could view it as crap now.

As for Wheel of Time--you folks are being waaay too nice. This series is garbage. The characters are about as deep as a puddle, and I've never seen such an obvious case of an author making it up as he goes along. Hence the endless tedium (not even Jordan has a clue what he's doing). And don't get me started on the brain-dead magic, ugh. Jordan's writing style makes me ill.

Ok, that's out of my system...

	31-05-2002 04:30									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I own about 600 fantasy (with a few sf in there) so far. Based on number of re-reads I'd have to say LOTR.

	31-05-2002 04:48									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Feist & Wurts Empire Series, by a wide margin

Hmmmmm, what's it like. I really hated Wurts characters in Curse of the Mistwraith and couldn't finish it and Feist's Maginian was fairly cute but more D & Dish than I like.

quote: but I really wish they hadn't done all that Zifnab crud. Once they started bringing him in the series went way downhill.

Yeah, and the horrible "whoosh good dragons appear and make everything better" ending. Liked the setting though.

quote: --"Oh and I remember really liking Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy" Those are very good, too.

Good to hear I had some taste as a kid, will have to track them down again.

quote: He tends to repeat himself rather too often.

And Eddings likes his heroes waaay too much, the poor bad guys never stand a chance.

quote: Eh. Those were good, upon a time.

I remember Elf Queen of Shannara being better than the others, much darker...

quote: --"Tad Williams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn." These are pretty decent.

Decent, but the length of the third book got pretty insane...

quote: Oh, and chalk me down with the "Read the first book of Thomas Covenant until the Rape Scene, which was disturbing, so I stopped soon afterwards" crowd.

Its a good crowd to be in.

quote: The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay

What's it like? I'm a 150 pages from the end of Tigara now by Kay and its pretty decent.

quote: I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't that scene happen in like the first 100 pages of the trilogy?

Yes thank god. I actually did this twice, once in early HS and once about a year ago

quote: I'll take the original Conan stuff by Robert E. Howard (not the crap re-edited or written by other authors

RJ's Conan-crap is especially funny No braid-tugging at least though

Oh and for sci-fi anyone read A.A. Attanasio's Last Legends of Earth of Wingrave's Chung Kuo series? Both're excellent.

Oh and Ming I know you're a fan of Poul Anderson, I've read a lot of his short stories and loved the Polesitechnic (SP!) League ones but didn't much care for the handful of his novels I've read, are there any really good ones I've missed?




Anyone like Rawn's series with the dragons and whatnot? I read them a looong time ago, barely remember them now...

	31-05-2002 05:01									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang Hmmmmm, what's it like. I really hated Wurts characters in Curse of the Mistwraith and couldn't finish it and Feist's Maginian was fairly cute but more D & Dish than I like.

I'd say there more Feist than Wurts. So if you like Feist, you should like them.

	31-05-2002 05:07									#60
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You think?

I think the characters feel a lot more like Wurts... But regardless, I definetly think the result of both of the collaborating is a lot better than each on their own. Just like Niven&Pournelle in Sci-fi