01-06-2002 00:44									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Prachett's Diskworld series is halarious. But as Athene points out, there's a lot of satirical philosophy snuck in there too. Don't start with either The Color of Magic or The Last Continent. There okay, but not up to his usual quality. Instead, I recommend to you: Hogfather, Thief of Time, Feet of Clay and Moving Pictures.

Shouldn't I read it in publishing order?
I mean I'd be spoiling things for myself if I didn't, right?

	01-06-2002 01:41									#122
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not neccesarily

and Small Gods is one of the best in my oppinion

Jon Miller

	01-06-2002 01:47									#123
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Discworld. Absolutely! Read them in finnish and now a second round in english....hilarious stuff...

	01-06-2002 02:16									#124
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Shouldn't I read it in publishing order? I mean I'd be spoiling things for myself if I didn't, right?

I don't think so. I'm reading them in the order I've come across them, and I'm having a wonderful time. This series isn't like most series, where each book rests on the previous and where characters are continually developing. Rather, each story seems to have different main characters--although other characters often pop up...eg. Death, Cpl. Nobby, Rincewind.

Something like Harry Potter, though, you definitely have to read in order. If you read 4 first, you know what happens in 3; 3 begins by telling you what happened in 2, and 2 tells what happened in 1.

	01-06-2002 02:35									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X . It was too...detatched (for loss of a better word). The same happened with Gene Wolfes "Books of the new sun"-series.

The good thing about Wolfe's Shadow of the Torturer series is that the odd style fit the character very well. A torturer needs to be detatched. However Wolfe's other books have the same style. They are no where near as good. Not the ones I have read anyway. I gave up on him a while ago.

	01-06-2002 02:55									#126
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Oh some of HP Lovecraft's works count as fantasy (Dreamquest of the Unknown Kadath, White Ship etc.) and they're real clasics.

quote: Read the book before passing judgment

I tried, I really did

quote: Glen Cook's The Black Company

Been meaning to read those for a while, will have to track them down...

quote: A Boat of a Million Years. One of the best historical fiction novels I've read...

Was the best of the novels of his I've read, got really wierd at the end though...

quote: Also it isn´t a bit original, it´s standard fantasy model 1 A. But since it is his first attempts at fantasy, and since it is fairly well written I´d give it my unconditional recommendations. If you like Tigana, you´ll like this one just as much.

Hmmm, maybe not. One of the things I liked in Tigara was the level of moral ambiguity in it, but that seems to be dissolving as the book progresses much to my disappointment I hate having all the characters shorted out into "good guys" and "bad guys" for me

	01-06-2002 02:59									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I am not sure if I regard Lord of Light as Fantasy although I will agree that it borders the genres Jon Miller

It was deliberatly and intentionly writen to stradle and cross the border so frequently that it was erased. There is psuedo science in it. The mind powers are so far out there that it becomes fantasy.

I mean it has gods, demigods, demons, monsters, fantastic beasts, reincarnation, Prayer Machines, The Lords of Karma and even Heaven. So even though they are given psuedo scientific excuses for existence its still very much a fantasy novel.

The battle in Hellwell is one the best action sequences I have ever read.

Off the top of my head:

He never said he was a god, then again he never said he wasn't, things being as they were neither would have helped but amibiguity would. He was called Mahasamatman but he preferred to drop the Maha and the atman and just be called Sam.

No I have NOT read it too often. In fact I think I will read it again.


I give one warning about the book. The middle part is a flashback from the start. THere is little indication of this and indeed it is possible to read the whole thing without figuring that out. I didn't figure out till I had the passed that point when I read it the second time and noticed that something didn't quite fit. I noticed it the first time also but I just couldn't slow to down to figure it out.

At the end of one chapter there is this ONE SENTENCE that indicates what happened.

Sam remembered.

Pretty much that short. I thought he had just sat and remembered something and then the story went on. Not the case, in fact the next major section of the story is Sam remembering what happened that put him where he was. I am not the only one that failed to notice this. Even warned about it some friends of mine did not notice untill they too became aware that there is seemed to be an odd distortion of time.

There needs to be a warning.

FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK FLASH BACK

Accross the bottom of one page and on the top of the next.

Not that it realy matters because I enjoyed the book immensly despite my confusion the first time around and it allowed me to read it a second time as a different novel than the first time.

	01-06-2002 03:15									#128
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Robert E Howard - A hard drinkin texan who blew his head off with a shotgun before he was thirty. Read the Conan (mostly short stories) actually written and completed by Howard instead of the mostly shlock that was re-written by others. My favorite is "Red Nails"

I am pretty sure it was a pistol. A 45 calibur revolver. He was a Texan after all.

Red Nails is great. Barry Smiths black and white comic version is stunning. One of the best comics ever produced by Marvel. The first of the Conan comics were terrible and then someting happened. Suddenly Barry Smith got it and the art changed dramaticly for the better. It went from bad comic book to Graphic Novel.

L. Spague De Camp adapted some of Howards non-Conan stories and those have always struck me as being nearly as good as Howards pure versions.

	01-06-2002 03:45									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred I am pretty sure it was a pistol. A 45 calibur revolver. He was a Texan after all. Red Nails is great. Barry Smiths black and white comic version is stunning. One of the best comics ever produced by Marvel. The first of the Conan comics were terrible and then someting happened. Suddenly Barry Smith got it and the art changed dramaticly for the better. It went from bad comic book to Graphic Novel. L. Spague De Camp adapted some of Howards non-Conan stories and those have always struck me as being nearly as good as Howards pure versions.

It certainly could have been a 45. L. Spague De Camp and Andrew Offut did finish a few of Howards storys quite seamlessly but their own novels didnt have the same raw feel as Howards (although I wouldnt spit on them). I've seen other Conan authors that were drivel though. Howard had a very simple style of writing, but when he was good it was like a Picasso, just a few brush strokes tells the story.

	01-06-2002 05:14									#130
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Shouldn't I read it in publishing order? I mean I'd be spoiling things for myself if I didn't, right?

You should read each mini-series in order. eg. The Witches books (Equal Rites, Lord & Ladies, Witches Abroad, Wyrd Sisters, Carpe Jugulum) should be read in order, the City Watch books should be read in order, and the Rincewind books should be read inorder, but other than that, it doesn't much matter.

	01-06-2002 11:46									#131
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All i have to say about HP is that in the movie, he defeated the guy with LOVE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? i'll never read one of the books.


Also, I may get crucified for this, but i found Farland's RuneLords series entertaining. But then again I also liked Feists Riftwar saga.

But hey! i'm only 22, and it seems i have a lot of catching up to do!!

	01-06-2002 12:01									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat You should read each mini-series in order. eg. The Witches books (Equal Rites, Lord & Ladies, Witches Abroad, Wyrd Sisters, Carpe Jugulum) should be read in order, the City Watch books should be read in order, and the Rincewind books should be read inorder, but other than that, it doesn't much matter.

I have not read the mini-series in order, and it has spoiled a couple of suprises. But that's not too serious...

And by the way, who is your favourite character in Discworl series? Mine is Death. Love him!

	01-06-2002 12:02									#133
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Oh about the Drow Series I only read the three Mezobearean books, and started crystal shard (I hated it). So I was referring to the Mezoberean series (prequels). I found the first to be the best, second was good, concerning the third I agree with Snowfire (bad villian).

	01-06-2002 17:29									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak But then again I also liked Feists Riftwar saga.

Whats the matter with the Riftwar series?

	01-06-2002 17:58									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Kristalli And by the way, who is your favourite character in Discworl series? Mine is Death. Love him!

Difficult question. None of the really major ones I think. Either the Bursar (mad!), Vetinari (genius!) or Leonard of Quirm (mad genius!). Or Gaspode.
Although Death has been getting funnier in the later books, I must admit.
Argh! too many characters...

	01-06-2002 18:52									#136
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Mine would be Mad Lord Snapcase, of course.

Zhu: Go for Hogfather, which is by far the best Susan/Death series book.

	01-06-2002 19:14									#137
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Thief of time...what is it about? I think it's not in the shops yet here in Finland.

	01-06-2002 19:19									#138
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It expands on the character of Lu-Tse from Small Gods as a main story, plus it gets the whole Auditors/Susan thing in again.

	01-06-2002 23:08									#139
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH L. Spague De Camp and Andrew Offut did finish a few of Howards storys quite seamlessly but their own novels didnt have the same raw feel as Howards (although I wouldnt spit on them).

Offut was at least close... De Camp was writing Conan Lite. I hated his editing. No one really got the same feel as Howard did.
Jordan's Conan was absolutely awful.

	02-06-2002 00:51									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Kristalli Thief of time...what is it about? I think it's not in the shops yet here in Finland.

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase It expands on the character of Lu-Tse from Small Gods as a main story, plus it gets the whole Auditors/Susan thing in again.

More specifically, the Auditors figure out that if they can get a human to build a perfect clock, time will stop--thus making auditing of the universe so much easier. Out to stop them are the Monks of Time, monks from kind of Kung-Fu-type monestary whose job it is to see that time runs smoothly. The main character was is an apprentice who was brought up in the Thieves' Guild--thus, the title of the book.

Best scene is where Death is trying to gather up the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse for their legendary ride, but Mrs. War won't let her henpecked husband go.

	02-06-2002 01:25									#141
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First of all, greatest of all is Lord of the Rings. No questions. No arguments. Tolkien is the master. Lord of the Rings is the one.

Now, after we've got that out...

I'm shocked and ashamed that this thread has forgotten the second-greatest one. ROBIN HOBB! The Farseer trilogy is pure gold, esp. the first and the second book. Third book was also good, but the ending was, shall we say, crap. It's exciting and you can really feel for the main character - and the setting is believable. Regal makes a better villain than thousand overpowered demon evil dark lords from standard fantasy tripe, and Forged people are somehow scarier than, well, thousand evil overpowered demon evil dark lords from standard fantasy tripe. ROBIN HOBB!

Terry Pratchett is, of course, good. Funny and tends to make you think - and the world's much better than your standard fantasy worlds, too.

Eddings=crap. Crap crap crap. Read first book, about 1/3 of second and then forgot it. Apparently there's more Eddingscrap out there. I'll always remember the Eddings review (about one of later series) in Tähtivaeltaja which started with "Oh fucking fucking fuck" and also wondered "How long will David Eddings be able to keep producing this crap aimed for 4-year-olds?" That rather summarizes my opinions about Eddings.

Wheel of Time: First two books (In Finland, each book was chopped up in two, so read that as "First book") was very good if not excellent, after that it was so-so and then I just quit reading. Because nothing ever happens, and I wonder... wonder mostly about whether Jordan gets paid by page amount.

Tad Williams: Read the first book and wasn't exactly overwhelmed.

	02-06-2002 02:47									#142
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The L Sprague DeCamp "editing" of Howard is one of the greatest crimes in fantasy literary history. Among other things he cut down what's possibly my favourite Conan story of all (The Black Stranger) to nearly half its length, messed with and changed the unfinished stories so that the borders between Howards words and his own vastly inferior ones was blurred, and obviously filled in non-existant "gaps" in the Conan "mythology" with nonsense. Although I was introduced to the work through his and Lin Carter's travesties, I'm relieved that I finally have all the Conan stories in "clean" books at home.

	02-06-2002 02:50									#143
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I have a theory that if I keep plugging "Mythago Wood" someone might actually read it. It hasn't worked yet.

	02-06-2002 02:51									#144
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Actually, I'm vaguely curious about lots of the stuff that's published in the Fantasy Masterworks Series. Except Lieber, Moorcock and Howard, obviously, does anyone recognise any other titles?

	02-06-2002 02:55									#145
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Yup. All the usual suspects, and heavy on Moorcock. Turgid gubbins.

	02-06-2002 02:59									#146
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quote: All i have to say about HP is that in the movie, he defeated the guy with LOVE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? i'll never read one of the books.

Kinda. He was protected from Voldemort by the love of his mother, yes. A very important form of love though, enough to sacrifice herself for the boy... this Voldemort couldn't break through (it formed a magical boundry). Voldemort being pure evil could not even touch the boy or he would be burnt by the ultimate love.

And I don't care if you don't read the books. Your loss .

	02-06-2002 03:37									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Actually, I'm vaguely curious about lots of the stuff that's published in the Fantasy Masterworks Series. Except Lieber, Moorcock and Howard, obviously, does anyone recognise any other titles?

Clarke Ashton Smith is in the same vein as Lovecraft. I dont remember if he was a contemporary. If you like Lovecraft they're worth a look.

ER Eddison preceded Tolkien in that style of epic fantasy (compared with say ERB or Howard). I have The worm Ouroboros, fight through the first 50 or so pages. It improves.

Its been a while since I read any The King of Elflands Daughter by Lord Dunsany but I remember it as kind of slow and without the vision of Eddison. My memory may be faulty on this one, but there must have been a reason why I didnt buy more .

Two other good classic fantasy by Joy Chant that havent been mentioned are:

The Grey Mane of Morning
Red Moon and Black Mountain



Is sf bokhandlen still open in Stockholm. They used to have a website but it seems to be gone.

	02-06-2002 03:41									#148
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Nope, the website is still up. http://www.sfbok.se

Bigger then ever in the new premises.

	02-06-2002 03:51									#149
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Thanks for the link. Maybe it went down when they moved?They're not in old-town anymore?

EDIT: no I see they are. I havent been there since 1994 I think. There's a decent store in Copenhagen too (kind of near the zoo) but I forget its name.

	02-06-2002 03:54									#150
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They are in the Old Town, they just moved up two blocks to bigger and more prestigious premises on Västerlånggatan.