03-06-2002 01:08									#91
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God give me strength.

	03-06-2002 01:25									#92
	Ram them till they give up! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm here listening to you. But you won't get any more strength before having sacrificed at least 3 more lambs. I'm getting hungry up here.

	03-06-2002 02:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Other than my continually stated thoughts that the blanket condemnations by Little Englanders are a bad thing?

It's quite easy to be critical on emotive issues such as this. It's another matter altogether trying to offer a coherent solution.

quote: Believe it or not, I think our current policies are pretty good. It's not governmental policy I'm attacking- it's media demonisation, and casual slaggings by people like your good self.

Our current policies - and those would be? The government does not seem to me very coherent in its proposals on dealing with asylum seekers.

I'm no fan of media demonisation either - indeed, I have written newspaper articles defending legitimate seekers of a safe haven from persecution.

But our current system, being the most generous and the most lax in Europe, clearly allows bogus asylum seekers (which I propose make up the majority of asylum applicants) to take advantage of our generosity to people truly in need. Indeed, our extreme generosity acts as too much of an incentive. Hence the emergence of human smugglers and people trying to get here from France (do they really need refuge from there? ).

The process of analysing the right to asylum for an individual - and that of ensuring those that get rejected are removed from the country - needs to be speeded up.

quote: I hate to state the obvious, but I have to in your case. Would you like me to use smaller words in future?

No thanks.

	03-06-2002 03:16									#94
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quote: Originally posted by BlackStone Trying to be condescending again. Anyway I am talking about the proposals put forward by our Home Secretary for English lessons for people emigrating or seeking asylum in this country. The actual policy not phantoms in the press (or indeed your head). Again another attempt to move the goal posts to hide the hideous holes in your rant. I await (with great expectation)your explanations of the minutiae of the underlying meaning of you post.

Hey! We're making progress!

If you want to discuss governmental policy on asylum seekers, why not start a thread about it? Or, at the very least, discuss it with someone who has some kind of issue with it. Personally speaking, I've no problems with giving them English lessons once they're here. I could have told you that a couple of pages back had you asked.

But....what's that got to do with my criticism of the media and threads here?

	03-06-2002 03:22									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I'm no fan of media demonisation either - indeed, I have written newspaper articles defending legitimate seekers of a safe haven from persecution.

Post a copy here. They'll make a worthwhile contribution to the subject. A worthwhile clarification of your own position too, given your tendency to refer to them as "scroungers"

quote: But our current system, being the most generous and the most lax in Europe, clearly allows bogus asylum seekers (which I propose make up the majority of asylum applicants) to take advantage of our generosity to people truly in need. Indeed, our extreme generosity acts as too much of an incentive. Hence the emergence of human smugglers and people trying to get here from France (do they really need refuge from there? ). The process of analysing the right to asylum for an individual - and that of ensuring those that get rejected are removed from the country - needs to be speeded up.

Why are they trying to get here from France? Ever interviewed any? Or seen them interviewed?

In most cases it falls down to three categories, as far as I can see from the interviews I've read and seen on TV.
1- Family here
2- Friends here
3- A sizeable community of others from their home here.

Motives I can understand. Comparative benefits between the UK and France don't tend to crop up.

	03-06-2002 03:29									#96
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So you're acknowledging that the vast majority of "asylum seekers" in Sangatte aren't actually fleeing persecution at all?

I agree with you on the Mail, though. It's reactionary nonsense of the worst kind. But then does the Mail feed public opinion or does public opinion feed the Mail? Either way, it disgusts me. And I'm a ****ing Conservative!

	03-06-2002 03:37									#97
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Not at all. I have no reason to doubt that they are there through a genuine threat.

However I disagree with assumptions that their reason for attempting to enter Britain from Sangatte is due to the size of the giro they'll get.

	03-06-2002 04:01									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny This is a digression, because my concern is over asylum seekers. For them, the test should not involve language tests. Would you send someone back to torture if they couldn't speak English? Having said that, we apply no language tests to EU citizens, and they seem to manage.

I assumed from the thread title that you were talking about immigrants in general. Of course with asylem seekers language is irrelevent (but then you already knew that...)

	03-06-2002 06:56									#99
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Very few of the Australians in the UK would be illegal. There are a few reasons for this.

Firstly anyone who has parents or even just one grand parent who was or is a British citizen is entitled to work in the UK. Millions of Australians are fit this criteria. Secondly if you have one grandparent who was a citizen of any EU country you have similar rights to live and work in any EU country including the UK. That covers millions more Australians. Thirdly, if you are under 30 you can get a working holiday visa for the UK very easily under a bilateral agreement with the UK. British under 30's have similar rights in Australia. Fourthly if you marry a UK citizen or have a stable de facto relationship you can stay as long as you like. Fifthly, the UK actively recruits Australian accountants, lawyers, teachers, nurses etc. and al these people get working visas.

Given all of the above its very difficult to see why many Australians would be illegal in the UK.

	03-06-2002 07:39									#100
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I thought Aussies were criminals where ever they are.

	03-06-2002 08:18									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In keeping with a fine tradition, you should include a somewhere in that post.

	03-06-2002 09:04									#102
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I thought Aussies were criminals where ever they are.

I'd rather be called a criminal than completely irrelevant

	03-06-2002 09:08									#103
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Poor you, you get to be both

	03-06-2002 09:14									#104
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Poor you, you get to be both

And your country could just drop off the planet and noone would notice

	03-06-2002 09:18									#105
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The only relevance the Aussies have is getting awful 80s movies made about them and the phrase "G'day mate".

	03-06-2002 09:21									#106
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Don't get me started on Canada - you w-anker. The world's greatest joke country. What are Canadians good at? Answer: Nothing.

	03-06-2002 09:26									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse And your country could just drop off the planet and noone would notice

I thought it was the Aussies that everyone prefers dropped off the planet. Isn't that how you started?

	03-06-2002 09:36									#108
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I thought it was the Aussies that everyone prefers dropped off the planet. Isn't that how you started?

Nah - that was new Zealand

	03-06-2002 10:02									#109
	Inflate your Upload Space

Oh. Sorry. Carry on.

	03-06-2002 13:37									#110
	Re: Re: Re: How to successfully enter Japan illegally. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by David James Well doesn't the same apply to Britain? You'd have to be of Northern or Western European descent for the same thing to work in Britain; I would suspect that people of Southern or Eastern European descent (except maybe Ukrainians) would have the same problems.

I don't think so. Europeans, on the average, are a lot more "mixed" than East Asians.

quote: Originally posted by David James Again, aren't we talking the same thing with respect to Britain? If anything, it's probably easier for people from a wider range of backgrounds to get into Britain than into Japan. We make such a fuss about how difficult it is for people to immigrate to "white" countries, yet the most difficult places to immigrate to are not in fact white but asian - Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, maybe Taiwan and South Korea (exception for S. Korea - North Koreans are allowed in without restriction, as in W. Germany and E. Germany of old). Why are there not sensitivity campaigns about asian racism and nativism?

I don't think the opening post is about how difficult to immigrate into certain countries, but how the standards for different races are different.

quote: Originally posted by David James Where are all the people who think diversity is such a good idea when it comes to prosperous asian countries? Surely there must be plenty of Africans, other Asians and south Asians (Iranians and Afghans, for example) that would love to go to Japan. Why should they prefer Australia to Japan?

Been to Singapore? Been to Kuala Lumpur? Been to Hong Kong? Been to Bangkok? With the exception of perhaps Japan, there is no lack of diversity in S/SE Asian countries. Perhaps not even in S Asian countries too.

quote: Originally posted by David James What's that got to do with it?

What's the point of your original post?

	03-06-2002 14:43									#111
	Re: How to successfully enter Britain illegally. Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny A Bugs masterclass in how to become an illegal alien in Britain, avoiding all those nasty immigration types. Just follow these steps. 1- Be white. 2- Speak English. 3- Travel to Britain on a return air ticket, with a fixed date of returm within 3 weeks of departure. Rip it up after you arrive, as you won't be using it. 4- Take a bit of cash- enough to plausibly support you for a couple of weeks. 5- Stroll nonchalently through the airport, and head for the London bars. Listen for bar staff with a vaguely similar accent to your own and strike up conversation by saying "Where are you from, mate?". Ask about work. 6- Relax. You're in. No-one will question you. It's a fact. If you're white, English-speaking and just fancy bumming around in Britain entering illegally is a piece of cake. If you're non-white, don't speak English and are fleeing for your life, you're screwed. Bad luck, mate. No darkies. This is why I love anti-immigration discussions.

Lets see. You started off with this which looks like a critique of the immigration system to me. How to get in, unless your black. The inference drawn here, not without reason, is that the immigration system and its officers are racist. No mention of the media.

	03-06-2002 14:51									#112
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

.....after that you increasingly distance yourself from your opening comments, or just u-turn on the initial sentiment.

Anyway its all got rather dull, so I shall leave it there.

	03-06-2002 16:02									#113
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8 minutes between those posts? That's a hell of a lot of time to think up two sentences. Were your knuckles going white with the effort?

Try placing the thread in context- that is, alongside the other immigration/asylum threads that occupied the upper half of the front page when the thread started.

Unless, of course, you've left it there.....

	03-06-2002 17:39									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny 8 minutes between those posts? That's a hell of a lot of time to think up two sentences. Were your knuckles going white with the effort?

Scraping the barrel there a bit aren`t you!

quote: Try placing the thread in context- that is, alongside the other immigration/asylum threads that occupied the upper half of the front page when the thread started.

Now I have to judge it against this. Other threads at the time?

quote: Unless, of course, you've left it there.....

Oh I hope so.

	03-06-2002 17:50									#115
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I dare say enough minutes have elapsed since my last post to cause some excitement your end.


Tell me Bugs are you not used to being cross examined this way? Because the uncomfortable way that you have twisted and turn, and the constant referral to yet more and more explanations of you initial statement aren't demonstrating that much confidence in your subject manner.

Maybe you have got too used to playing to a home audience?




Edit: is that 11 minutes

	03-06-2002 18:24									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Nah - that was new Zealand

New Zealand was a penal colony? News to me...

	03-06-2002 18:31									#117
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Ah, mea culpa. I could never resist a big "I'm leaving now" flouncing out. It's a golden rule that anyone making one of those won't be able to resist sneaking back to see how their dramatic exit went down.

Right, Blackstone? It's a classic "awkward squad" tactic, isn't it?

	03-06-2002 18:37									#118
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Yeah Blackstone, you know you cant leave...

	03-06-2002 18:40									#119
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Come into my parlour.....you know you can't resist.......

	03-06-2002 18:43									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Ah, mea culpa. I could never resist a big "I'm leaving now" flouncing out. It's a golden rule that anyone making one of those won't be able to resist sneaking back to see how their dramatic exit went down. Right, Blackstone? It's a classic "awkward squad" tactic, isn't it?

I wasn't "flouncing out" as you put it. I just thought that we had exhausted all of the avenues, that's all. And it can't have escaped your notice that the whole discussion was getting very tired.

And the least said about the "awkward squad" the better.