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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Andydog gets a yellow card   |
Welcome back to the real world, Caligastia! Now, before you get carried away with this policing power, you should be advised that your performance as Thread Cop will be monitored. On this basis, it's worth passing on to you the recent travails of one Bill Harrigan, Australia's top RL ref - and probably the world's top RL ref, given, as I've observed before, that the RL world consists of 100 sq miles of northern England and a handful of Australian suburbs.
Anyway, Bill recently reffed the local State of Origin match, the OZ RL game of the year. Friends of mine who follow RL - well, acquaintances, really, because I don't keep friends whose IQs are smaller than their shoe size - they assure me that Bill is the finest RL ref of this or any other generation.
Cut to the chase. Last week, in a local premiership game, he sent off three players from one team. Outrage ensued. He was observed - by usually sensible watchers - to have lost the plot.
Bottom line. This week, he's refereeing reserve grade.
Moral. The taller the tree, the mightier the crash when it falls.
Thus, Caligastia, not to put too fine a point on it, any more cards for SH posters and you're in the bin yourself, buddy.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
He’s Englishman alright! Warm cloudy beers indeed. It’s Mrs Havak I feel sorry for - I found that bitter, once drunken, seems to carry on brewing in your stomach. That bitter gave me some of the most shocking and offensive farts that I have ever produced – and it caused me no end of trouble I tell you. I refer to it as my “bitter experience of ’99”, and I will never forget it. Havak, you are obviously guilty of drinking it for years, I can’t begin to imagine how rotten your arse has become. |
Given that Havak certainly comes from a very long line of bitter quaffers, I suspect Charles Darwin has come to his aid and outfitted him with asbestos nether regions.
quote:
I still haven’t been able to work out how this tiff started or what the real facts are. Some say the NZRFU initially agreed on the extra team, then reneged. Some say that ARU is getting too big for their britches – insisting that the Kiwis play more games just because John O’Neil can’t be arsed organising a strong domestic competition. |
There's truth in both statements. NZ did agree before reneging. Australia should have a national competition along the lines of NZ's NPC and England's comp. Things are - yet again - moving in that direction here. Queensland and NSW have both made changes to their local comps with a view to ending up with a "Premier League" between the respective top sides. But the S12 comp will always be above and beyond club comps.
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NZ has said “no thanks, we already have plenty of games with a full Super 12 season, a full NPC season, and 5 Home Tests”. |
Interestingly enough, this is just about exactly the attiude the NZRFU took with regard to the WRC. I kid you not. They said it would interfere with the NPC both in terms of funding - the sponsor signage debacle - and scheduling.
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The Australian knee-jerk reaction of “you are killing the game of rugby” and kicking us out of the RWC has done themselves no favours, only complicated the situation. |
The NZRFU kicked itself out of the WRC.  The contracts were on the table for months. The deadlines were known for months. For some unknown reason, the NZRFU ignored them. And the recriminations - within NZ - continue.
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I personally think that Australian rugby is where it is today because of the NZRFU (and of course the SARFU). Just remember who it was that gave you a helping hand. Now it’s time to pull your finger out and start helping yourself – give your up & coming talent the opportunity they need via a domestic competition. An extra team in the Super 12 will not be as effective. |
Well, the "helping hand" argument arose after the NZRFU stuffed the WRC situation, as if the ARFU, in return for past favours, should wear the NZRFU treating the WRC contracts with obvious, unapologetic contempt. The ARFU did pull its finger out and will now host the WRC. It's also interesting to note that the SARFU - one of our Godparents - supports a fourth Oz S12 team.
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Sure, it won’t make you quite as much money, but that is the real issue isn’t it! |
It's one of a number of issues.
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So early on? Story of my life... |
See my earlier - um, advice to Caligastia. He might have sold his soul to the almighty greenback, but I suspect SH blood still pounds through his veins. Though Blood Banks do pay rather well over there, don't they?
Edit. Lote Tuquiri update. He's playing for Australia - I forget which Oz animal the RL mob have appropriated for their team name, possibly the Wombats - against England this week. The word is that he will announce his defection to Union after the match. The RL masses are severly ticked off that he - a traitor - was picked for the Test.
Last edited by finbar on 09-07-2002 at 06:33
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Anyway, Bill recently reffed the local State of Origin match, the OZ RL game of the year. Friends of mine who follow RL - well, acquaintances, really, because I don't keep friends whose IQs are smaller than their shoe size - they assure me that Bill is the finest RL ref of this or any other generation.
Cut to the chase. Last week, in a local premiership game, he sent off three players from one team. Outrage ensued. He was observed - by usually sensible watchers - to have lost the plot.
Bottom line. This week, he's refereeing reserve grade.
Moral. The taller the tree, the mightier the crash when it falls.
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Hmmm ...
First thing I've actually heard something about in a while and it has to do with RL. 
There may just be an omen in that somewhere...
Back to the subject - wasn't this just a technical slap on the wrist though? He makes a few bad decisions (supposedly - I only heard about it afterwards) and gets sin-binned for a week. That's only a single round IIRC - or do refs normally "play" more than one match in a week?
And on a non-related note - Could the ACB learn anything from this? Start quaking in your boots Daryl Hair!
quote:
Anyway, regardless of the rugby coverage over there, I need you on my side in this thread. Caligastia's now got another Kiwi; Havak's got his two French chums - cross-Channel rivalries being set aside when it comes to taking on the Southern Hemisphere - and I'm on my lonesome. So stick around!
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Darn I'm really sorry I missed seeing this - right after you posted it...
*Ahem*
Could we please have a poll of the Kiwi's here?
*raises hand*
(It does have rugby in the title and all, so we're attracted to it like fl .. er, well, drawn to it.
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One tip, though. If a post of Havak's doesn't mention either English skipper Jonno or Havak's beloved club, Leicester Tigers, it's only because he's forgotten. Please remind him of his forgetfulness.
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Andydog
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London
Jan 2001
time: 05:19
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Excellent! Another Kiwi! Ravagon I assume that you are living in Australia, and since I am currently living in London, that means that none of us Kiwis who are currently posting on this thread actually live in NZ.
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The NZRFU kicked itself out of the WRC. |
Sir Thomas Eichelbaum's inquiry will determine if this is true. To me, and obviously this is my completely unbiased opinion, to suggest that NZ procrastination has lead to their inability to meet the demands of the RWCL is a huge call. If the inquiry finds this to be true, then the chief exec & the other senior execs of the NZRFU should step down in disgrace.
However there are claims that IRB chairman, Pugh, double crossed NZ through some dodgy dealings from the Aussies – who were pissed off with NZ over the Super 12 row. I see that Rob Fisher (one of the 5 directors of the RWCL - a Kiwi) has resigned over how NZ was kicked out.
The whole thing stinks worse than Havaks bitter farts.
What we need now is for all sides to relax, place egos aside, and start focusing back on the game. In particular raising its profile in a way that is fair to all three rugby nations.
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It's also interesting to note that the SARFU - one of our Godparents - supports a fourth Oz S12 team. |
Yes, but notice that they’ve been fairly quiet during this row. Like NZ they also have an established provincial competition, so would probably push for a change in format of the S14 such that the number of games are reduced. Which is probably what NZ will end up agreeing to. But before that happens I think that Aussie should get off their chuff and get their domestic competition going. You wonder why your talent defects to the UK.
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Given that Havak certainly comes from a very long line of bitter quaffers, I suspect Charles Darwin has come to his aid and outfitted him with asbestos nether regions. |
Surely this can’t be possible! Justify yourself Havak - and your asbestos anus – to all of us SH boys!
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
that means that none of us Kiwis who are currently posting on this thread actually live in NZ. |
*finbar sniggers*
Actually, we have an occasional visit from MrWhereItsAt, a resident Kiwi. I think he's in Wellington.
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Sir Thomas Eichelbaum's inquiry will determine if this is true. |
What's happened with this inquiry? We keep hearing reports that it's finished but unreleased.
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The whole thing stinks worse than Havaks bitter farts. |
Talk about a big call.
quote:
What we need now is for all sides to relax, place egos aside, and start focusing back on the game. In particular raising its profile in a way that is fair to all three rugby nations. |
Look, to be quite honest, it's ridiculous that the WRC isn't a joint effort. Politics are really getting in the way in SH rugby. Before you know it, we'll be crippled by politics to the same extent that English rugby is crippled.
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Yes, but notice that they’ve been fairly quiet during this row. |
I think they're busy worrying about trying to return the Boks to some sort of competitive level internationally. From what I've seen this season, the ABs and Wallabies will both crucify them.
quote:
Like NZ they also have an established provincial competition, so would probably push for a change in format of the S14 such that the number of games are reduced. Which is probably what NZ will end up agreeing to. |
Havak raised the S14 point the other day. I don't know where the extra team - beyond the extra Oz team - would come from.
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But before that happens I think that Aussie should get off their chuff and get their domestic competition going. You wonder why your talent defects to the UK. |
There are two types of defectors - those at the end of their careers out to boost their superannuation; and younger players frustrated by the lack of opportunity at a higher level - which is to say, S12 as a stepping stone to Test level. Our domestic comp - even if it goes national - is always going to be limited by the fact that it amounts to two states, NSW and Queensland. England's population allows it to maintain a strong comp. NZ, while lacking population, has rugby as a national religion and has no competition from either RL (to an extent) or AFL. In fact, it's the AFL that is the biggest hinderance to us in this country. So the impact of a domestic comp is a relative thing and isn't any sort of simple panacea.
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Surely this can’t be possible! Justify yourself Havak - and your asbestos anus – to all of us SH boys! |
I was wondering where Havak had disappeared to until I recalled he said he had an appointment to fit a new muffler.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Welcome back to the real world, Caligastia! Now, before you get carried away with this policing power, you should be advised that your performance as Thread Cop will be monitored. On this basis, it's worth passing on to you the recent travails of one Bill Harrigan, Australia's top RL ref - and probably the world's top RL ref, given, as I've observed before, that the RL world consists of 100 sq miles of northern England and a handful of Australian suburbs.
Anyway, Bill recently reffed the local State of Origin match, the OZ RL game of the year. Friends of mine who follow RL - well, acquaintances, really, because I don't keep friends whose IQs are smaller than their shoe size - they assure me that Bill is the finest RL ref of this or any other generation.
Cut to the chase. Last week, in a local premiership game, he sent off three players from one team. Outrage ensued. He was observed - by usually sensible watchers - to have lost the plot.
Bottom line. This week, he's refereeing reserve grade.
Moral. The taller the tree, the mightier the crash when it falls.
Thus, Caligastia, not to put too fine a point on it, any more cards for SH posters and you're in the bin yourself, buddy. |
Ok, only NH posters get cards from now on. Sounds fair to me...
How hard can it be to be a RL ref? All you have to do is stand close to the tackle and shout "Get off!...Get off him!" and make sure nobody sticks their finger up anyone elses arse!
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Place your bets!
Lets start the betting on the upcoming NZ v OZ game!
We all have 100 gold to start with, so I am betting 40 gold on a NZ win. For now it might be best if we just bet on a win or a loss as opposed to the more complicated stuff. Once we all get used to betting we can get into odds etc...or we could get into it right away if someone can explain the best way for us to do it...what do you think Finbar? In any case I nominate you for treasurer |
The bottom line is that, obviously, there has to be a pool out of which the winners are paid. Which makes the odds system hard - nay, impossible - to pull off with our small group of people. I suspect we're going to have to stick with the very simple system of the winners sharing the losers' stakes. This means we can still use the points spread, because that, effectively, is still just win or lose. It just makes the outcomes a little more tantalising.
Any better ideas?
Anyway - thus far, we have:
Caligastia 100 - 40 = 60
finbar 100 - 20 = 80
So there's 60 gold in the pot up for grabs.
Any more takers? I still think Havak's 6 point margin is fair and reasonable. If you were to take that margin, and you back the Wallabies, they have to win by 6 or more. Back the Wallabies and they win by fewer than 6 (or lose), you blow your money.
You interested in the margin, Caligastia? I'd've thought you'd jump at it. It means the ABs can either win outright or lose by fewer than 6 points.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
The bottom line is that, obviously, there has to be a pool out of which the winners are paid. Which makes the odds system hard - nay, impossible - to pull off with our small group of people. I suspect we're going to have to stick with the very simple system of the winners sharing the losers' stakes. This means we can still use the points spread, because that, effectively, is still just win or lose. It just makes the outcomes a little more tantalising.
Any better ideas? |
Nope, sounds good to me.
quote:
Anyway - thus far, we have:
Caligastia 100 - 40 = 60
finbar 100 - 20 = 80
So there's 60 gold in the pot up for grabs.
Any more takers? I still think Havak's 6 point margin is fair and reasonable. If you were to take that margin, and you back the Wallabies, they have to win by 6 or more. Back the Wallabies and they win by fewer than 6 (or lose), you blow your money.
You interested in the margin, Caligastia? I'd've thought you'd jump at it. It means the ABs can either win outright or lose by fewer than 6 points. |
So we all choose a score and everyone within 6 points of what they chose shares the pot? Im a bit confused...its still too early in the morning for my brain to work..
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
So we all choose a score and everyone within 6 points of what they chose shares the pot? Im a bit confused...its still too early in the morning for my brain to work.. |
No, it's just another means of win/lose betting. Havak has calculated - his methods are detailed back a few pages - that the Wallabies are favourites to win. Whether you agree or not, that's his calculation. In this instance, he's calculated that they're favourite by 6 points.
It's basically a handicapping system. If you back the Wallabies, they have to win by 6 points or more. When you back them, you carry the handicap of them having to win by 6 points or more.
Conversely, if you back the ABs, they have - effectively - a 6 points start. So you have two means of winning - either they win outright, or they lose by 6 points or fewer.
It's a system that was designed to make betting feasible when you have two teams of vastly different quality. The simple win/lose bet doesn't work in that scenario because no one's going to back the team of vastly lesser quality. But if you give the superior team a handicap - say, they have to win by 40 or more points before the bet is collected - then it makes the contest a betting proposition. Because you can also back the inferior team. In this case, you'd be betting that it will finish within 40 points of the superior team.
Make sense now?
Edit. Just let me re-think the statement that you also win the bet if you back the ABs - to lose by 6 points or fewer - and they actually win the match. I'll get back to you.
Re-edit. Yes, I'm right. If you back the ABs to lose by 6 points of fewer, you also win the bet if they actually win the match. Or even draw it!
Last edited by finbar on 10-07-2002 at 19:31
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
No, it's just another means of win/lose betting. Havak has calculated - his methods are detailed back a few pages - that the Wallabies are favourites to win. Whether you agree or not, that's his calculation. In this instance, he's calculated that they're favourite by 6 points.
It's basically a handicapping system. If you back the Wallabies, they have to win by 6 points or more. When you back them, you carry the handicap of them having to win by 6 points or more.
Conversely, if you back the ABs, they have - effectively - a 6 points start. So you have two means of winning - either they win outright, or they lose by 6 points or fewer.
It's a system that was designed to make betting feasible when you have two teams of vastly different quality. The simple win/lose bet doesn't work in that scenario because no one's going to back the team of vastly lesser quality. But if you give the superior team a handicap - say, they have to win by 40 or more points before the bet is collected - then it makes the contest a betting proposition. Because you can also back the inferior team. In this case, you'd be betting that it will finish within 40 points of the superior team.
Make sense now?
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Yes, but how do we share the winnings?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
I just inserted an edit at the end of the post explaining the system. But that doesn't affect this answer. You share the winnings in exactly the same way you do with a normal bet. With the points system, someone still has to win and someone still has to lose. If I back the Wallabies to win by more than 6 and you back the ABs to lose by fewer than 6 - and the Wallabies win by, say, 7 - I win and you lose. If the Wallabies win by, say, 5 - I lose and you win.
Obviously, if the Wallabies win by exactly 6, then - in betting terms - it's all square. Money refunded. |
Ok, but if you bet on the wallabies, and Andydog and I bet different amounts on the ABs and the ABs win, how do we share the winnings?
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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You would win a sum based on the amount you bet. If you and Andydog bet the same amount, you would split the pool. If one bets more than the other, the pool would be divided accordingly. We would end up with fractional amounts, but that's okay, because it's fantasy money anyway
For example, I bet 20 gold and lose. Caligastia bets 40, Andydog bets 40 = share the pool = C and A receive 10 gold each.
I bet 20 gold and lose. Caligastia bets 40, Andydog bets 20 = C receives 13.25 gold, A receives 6.75.
That's based on just my losing bet. If others were to bet and lose, the pool would, obviously, increase.
Basically, you bet more to win more, as is the case with all betting. The difference with our system - different to totalizator betting - is that you don't win a multiple of your stake because we're not using odds. We can't do that because we don't have enough bettors to create a pool large enough to pay multiples of our bets. For example, if you placed 40 gold on the ABs at, say, 6/4 (or 1 1/2 to 1), you would get back 60 gold. The pool mightn't have the funds to pay you. It certainly wouldn't have the funds to pay more than one winning bet at those odds.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
The rumour here is that the report is pretty ugly in terms of the NZRFU. But then, would that surprise you?
[quote]South Africa. Which is why they are supportive of Australia. This is another argument against the S14 - South African teams have generally been weaker, so why introduce another team that is uncompetitive? It would be a shame to turn the competition into something like the NH 6 Nations - only a few key games count, the rest are formalities. |
I haven't actually heard any real push for a S14. I haven't heard anything beyond the extra Oz team. Leaving me wondering about the numbers - with 13, there will be byes all over the place, I'd've thought. But you're right - the last thing anyone needs is another bloody Bok whipping boy. With great respect to our friends across the Indian Ocean, of course.
quote:
* Andydog casts off in the direction of Havak * |
I'm sure Havak will take your point - and, what's more, on the basis of the incontravertible evidence, completely and utterly agree with you that - come England's crunch game, against whomever, it's a formality that England will choke.
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- Couldn't agree more. He is THE most overrated player in rugby. He should be kept on the bench until the second half of the second half - bring him on then to run at and batter a tired opposition. Lord knows he can't tackle to save himself. |
When he was at his peak, he was worth the risk with his dodgy tackling. Hello Wendell Sailor? And I mean that in a caring and sharing way, Wendell. Not that you're in Jonah's league. When he was at his top. The problem now is that Jonah's not the force he was. He's lumbering rather than flying.
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I'll stick with my 20 gold on Wallaby stew. Not long till the game now chaps! I can feel the excitement creeping on already! |
I can't wait! So are you opting for Havak's 6 points start? Meaning the ABs can also lose by fewer than 6 points and you still win your money? I'll post separately with an update on the betting pool.
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I see that Ben Tune has been selected over Wendell Sailor. Finbar your wife will be pleased |
Wendell was only ever warming the wing for Ben Tune. If NSW's Scott Staniforth hadn't been injured - while Tune was out - he would've been in front of Wendell, too.
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Play it right mate and it should be fairly easy for you to get a bit of that poonani at half time! |
I assume "poonani" is Kiwi for, um, crumpet?
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
NH 6 Nations - only a few key games count, the rest are formalities. * Andydog casts off in the direction of Havak |
Reply from the other side of the Channel.
Agreed, Italy is pretty useless in terms of suspense. It probably helps them get a better team, so long-term, it may be a good thing. Plus going to Rome is probably much more rewarding than going to Cardiff.
As for the other nations, although the victory is quite often a single match decision, the most important is currently to achieve a grand slam, and that is never easy. The English didn't get one for years because they always managed to lose to some supposedly weaker team once. And of course, watching the single match where England loses is usually very rewarding for just about all the other nations supporters. England may still win the tournament, but the others will be happy enough they have been beaten once.
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09-07-2002 05:01
An extinct flightless bird in dingo's clothing! 
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