06-06-2002 00:40									#61
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Guys, it wasn't the internet part that bothered me...you're right...the 'net is about as wide open as you can get.

-=Vel=-

	06-06-2002 00:43									#62
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory He tried to assanite Bush Sn.

A story the US gov latter admitted it fabricated.

	06-06-2002 00:49									#63
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Wher did you hear that? They never admitted it was fabricated.

	06-06-2002 12:46									#64
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Ned:

"You really don't have a clue do you?"

The 2 out of the 4 charges against Clinton that made it to the senate were bogus. More importantly, the rep rhetoric at the time tried to turn impeachment into a no-confidence vote. Just turning tables.

Dino:

"In your opinion, what level would the potential threat have to reach before action would be justified?"

Also depends on the risk that goes with the strike. I have no idea how you could generalize this apart from "seek a net benefit".

Included is the inequality precedence it sets. Bush is hellbent on seeking a special priviledged position in the international framework for the US-american 5 % of mankind. The other 95 % will always see that as a hostile act.

Dan:

"Hitler's Phony War took place between October '39 and April '40."

We call that "drôle de guerre" or so. Damn frenchies.

"by which measure do you judge the musings of a raving lunatic?"

You really need to get out of Washington, you're swamping in government propaganda. IYO, what has Bush done to protect your ass since the fall of the Taliban ? And what has he done to shove favours to his cronies ?

	06-06-2002 14:28									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Ned: "You really don't have a clue do you?" The 2 out of the 4 charges against Clinton that made it to the senate were bogus. More importantly, the rep rhetoric at the time tried to turn impeachment into a no-confidence vote. Just turning tables.

I don't remember the details of the charge. But the man was impeached because he lied under oath. Just before he left office, he settled with the SP and got off with a 5 year suspended law license.

He was guilty as charged.

	06-06-2002 14:37									#66
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I don't remember the details either, but oddly enough, IIRC the lying under oath (the only thing with legal substance) didn't go into the articles sent to the Senate. Anyway, if you say he was guilty, why was he acquitted then ? Because it's political. So why not make up some bogus charges against Bush if it's politically convenient ?

	06-06-2002 15:42									#67
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Zobo: A cassius bell already exists. He tried to assanite Bush Sn. and he is a meglomaniac dictator who is obessed with WoMD. Are you people blind to see that if Terrorists got ahold of these, millions would die. I dont wanna take that chance, Im glad bush and the majority of Americans holds the same view.

Oh, yes ... USA will save the Free World, and EU is too moronic or corrupted to foresee the Danger.

Of course there's a danger that little country leaded by hostil dictator with Massive Destruction weapons. But we don't like your tactics : Destroying all potential hostil country to USA or maybe Western.

	06-06-2002 15:47									#68
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Oh, yes ... USA will save the Free World, and EU is too moronic or corrupted to foresee the Danger. Of course there's a danger that little country leaded by hostil dictator with Massive Destruction weapons. But we don't like your tactics : Destroying all potential hostil country to USA or maybe Western.

It must be difficult to do business with them while we got that whole embargo thing on them uh?

	06-06-2002 17:34									#69
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US embargo on Iracq ? A joke ... Western ( & USA too!) sells medic for Oil at an interesting prize ...

US embargo on Cuba ? What threat represent Cuba ? Nuclear Missile ? Be serious.

	06-06-2002 18:32									#70
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"It must be difficult to do business with them while we got that whole embargo thing on them uh?"

As for Iraq: Yes, because we have our own embargo in line with UN measures. A US-only embargo would be a joke. Within the food for oil programme though the US is quite active as well.

As for Cuba: Not at all, because attempts to extend the US embargo were successfully defeated by clawback rules. Actually, it's easier for us beacuse US companies need all kinds of ways around the embargo to compete there.

	06-06-2002 19:52									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Roland I don't remember the details either, but oddly enough, IIRC the lying under oath (the only thing with legal substance) didn't go into the articles sent to the Senate. Anyway, if you say he was guilty, why was he acquitted then ? Because it's political. So why not make up some bogus charges against Bush if it's politically convenient ?

He was put on trial because we do not want a king or emperor - no man, not even the president, is above the law.

However, he was not convicted because the Dem's voted as a block to aquit. They were lead by one Al Gore, who stood by his man in the Rose garden. Al Gore, a very decent fellow, at the end of a long period of economic growth, during a time of peace, was not elected president over a bumbler. Al Gore has only one person to blame for his loss - himself, for defending that scumball loser.

	06-06-2002 20:00									#72
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While it's true the Gore has only himself to blame, it's not over defending Clinton, who despite the conservatives insane hatred (as opposed to the left's fully justified hatred of the man) of the man, was a rather popular president. Gore committed numerous errors in his campaign which cost him voters who either decided to sit out the election or vote Green. He also ignored the massive vote fraud going on in Florida, and didn't ask for overvotes to be counted. He and his staff were organizational idiots. Which doesn't speak well for him being a good President.

	06-06-2002 20:05									#73
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"He was put on trial because we do not want a king or emperor - no man, not even the president, is above the law."

He was put on trial because the right-wing republicans hated him, and after Whitewater etc yielded nothing they took the next best thing. He was acquitted because Senators found it politically convenient. Only the second point went partly as the constitution had in mind.....

The public had no big interest in the Senate removing Clinton, so I fail to see why they would have suddenly voted against Gore because of that.

	06-06-2002 20:26									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "He was put on trial because we do not want a king or emperor - no man, not even the president, is above the law." He was put on trial because the right-wing republicans hated him, and after Whitewater etc yielded nothing they took the next best thing. He was acquitted because Senators found it politically convenient. Only the second point went partly as the constitution had in mind..... The public had no big interest in the Senate removing Clinton, so I fail to see why they would have suddenly voted against Gore because of that.

Roland, Bush was not the best candidate to ever run for president. The explanation for the Gore loss was himself. He even blames Clinton, justifiably I believe.

Clinton's job performance ratings were always good. However, the public gave him very low marks as a person. They knew he was a liar and scumbag, a man who would promise you he would be behind you 100% only to stab you in the back.

	06-06-2002 20:34									#75
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"They knew he was a liar and scumbag, a man who would promise you he would be behind you 100% only to stab you in the back."

Hmm... I always saw Clinton as a liar and scumbag who would promise you he would be behind you only to look for something female to bonk....

	06-06-2002 22:31									#76
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"IYO, what has Bush done to protect your ass since the fall of the Taliban ? And what has he done to shove favours to his cronies ?"

I think Bush has been pretty upfront about about what he believes. For instance, his energy policy might benefit energy companies, but it's also what he believes. As part of an oil family, what he says re energy makes good sense. At worst, there's an appearance of a conflict of interest.

Re the terrorism, it's quite tough to know what he has done. It's also quite tough for you to discount his efforts, especially since these terrorist acts haven't been repeated (yet).

	06-06-2002 23:06									#77
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Roland, Clinton was a raping, molesting abuser of women. He was not "cool."

	06-06-2002 23:07									#78
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Ned, would you say JFK was a "raping. molesting abuser of women" as well?

	06-06-2002 23:36									#79
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No.

	07-06-2002 12:21									#80
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Ned: Where did I say Clinton was cool ? And I think you need to read up on Kennedy.

Dan:

"I think Bush has been pretty upfront about about what he believes. For instance, his energy policy might benefit energy companies, but it's also what he believes."

That is the funny thing about today's republicans. They've turned corruption into a believe system. Well, you can do what you want, just leave us alone with this, ok ?

"It's also quite tough for you to discount his efforts, especially since these terrorist acts haven't been repeated (yet)."

What efforts ?
Why was he, alsong with the Reps in Congress, so incredibly quick with extra pork, the "axis of evil" and the Iraq agenda ? Why are they so excruciatingly slow with addressing the feudal anarchy that is your government ? So far Bush's efforts have been to make up ever sillier versions of "giant struggle against evil".

	08-06-2002 01:34									#81
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Roland, I don't know all the details on JFK. But compare. No women came forward to complain that JFK raped them. No women came forward with complaints of molestation. No women came forward with sexual harrasment complaints.

Since I have never heard of any of the above about Kennedy, I assume they did not happen.

Is this true?

	08-06-2002 01:43									#82
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You discount for the fact that the US that JFK operated in was a very different country from today's America. It wasn't as if women were exactely encouraged to report sexual harassment back then, while today they're almost suspect unless they turn in another report every month or so... Everything I've ever seen about Kennedy seems to indicate BC was a monk compared to him.

Not that it matters - what the Pres does privately is a matter between him, his wife and the young lady concerned, really. I found the unbelievable ruckus 'bout Clintons sexual escapades totally disgusting, and I'm not now nor were I ever part of his fanclub.

I also don't think throwing epithets such as "rapist" or "molestor" around is going to benefit your argument. It's not as if the man was ever convicted, remember?

	08-06-2002 02:23									#83
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Alright, alleged rapist, alleged molester and settled-out-of-court sexual harrasser.

Is this better?

Still, being an unfaithful womanizer and being someone who abuses his position of power to rape, molest and harrass employees into sexual favors are two entirely different things. As far as I know, JFK was only a womanizer.

	08-06-2002 03:12									#84
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Ned, I allege that you're a rapist and murderer. You are now an alleged rapist and murderer. See how silly that is?

	08-06-2002 04:41									#85
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Well, much as it pains me, I have to side with the che git over this... The way people can practically persecute others with lawsuits in America is ignoble, a side effect being that settlements out of court no longer indicate ziltch except that people now favour paying off rather than being dragged through the courts infinitely.

Let's be frank - there was an amazing number of people who hated the Clintons with a rage that left them foaming at the mouth just thinking about "Billary". Given the fact that Bill apparently swung his pecker like his was a VIP member of a gay club and a lot of highly motivated and rich clinton-bashers saw that as an opportunity to nail him by telling any girl who ever fell for Old Billy Boy that there was some serious money to be made sueing him, I'm almost surprised it wasn't more.

So, no, Ned, I don't really think it's rasonable to speak of Bill as a rapist or a molestor. The War on Terrorism, now nicely supplementing The War on Drugs, hasn't yet justified people to be considered guilty without it having been proved in court.

Not even presidents. Even if you hate their guts.

	08-06-2002 05:22									#86
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Yay, the Kurds get to be screwed again.

	08-06-2002 05:55									#87
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It is amazing that when a number of women give essentially the same sort of story concerning Clinton that we are still supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy was a smuck, and we all know it.

In contrast, no one ever accused JFK of anything untoward. Most of the women he was with have told their stories. Do any of them have anything unkind to say about him?

Now think about this for a moment: "alleged" mass murderer Hitler. That doesn't sound right does it? We all know the facts. We don't have to had a trial to know the truth. Hitler was a mass murderer.

In the same manner, Clinton was a rapist, a molester and a sexual harrasser. Too many women have come forward. I believe the women.

Had Clinton been the CEO of any company, or any subordinate executive in the US government, he would have been fired based on the evidence of the women's complaints. But he was the president of the United States and we the people had to put up with the scum.

Last edited by Ned on 08-06-2002 at 06:47

	08-06-2002 05:58									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yay, the Kurds get to be screwed again.

That should please the PKK.

	08-06-2002 07:40									#89
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Actually, Ned, as far as I'm aware, Clinton hasn't been acused of rape. I would definately agree the man is a sex addict, and probably did expose himself to Paula Jones. Kathlene Wiley, while I believed her at first, has been rather thoroughly discredited. Lewinsky certainly was willing. Flowers was willing. Most of the women who've admitted to having sexual contact with Clinton said it was voluntary. Doesn't mean I don't think he's a creep. But even in Wiley's story, when she said "no," he stopped.

On the other hand, Kennedy's affairs were during a very different period, when sexual harrasment wasn't only normal, it was perk of office. And there are still rumors of Monroe's death being murder. She, according to everyone who's spoken about it, was very unhappy with her relationship with both of the Kennedeys.

	08-06-2002 07:48									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yay, the Kurds get to be screwed again.

This from someone who doesnt want to remove Hussien? And is opposed to the no-fly zones?


Spare me your gimmicks, stop acting like you actually care.