10-06-2002 13:48									#1
	Science Advisor Campaign Thread Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

"Dear Fellow People,

My name is Tassadar, and I am currently running for the Science Advisor position in the Civilization III Democracy Game.

Science is a very important part of Civilization III. Science allows you to trade with other civilizations for money and resources and even more science. It helps you to build up your culture so that others may look up to your civilization and even overthrow their rulers to come to you. But maybe most importantly, science allows you modern armies that defend you from invaders and expand your territory.

However, science is nothing when set in the wrong direction. Researching certain techs at the wrong time can have disasterous, even deadly results. An empire collapsing due to lack of scientific progress is in my opinion, more frustrating than an empire collapsing due to underwhelming military strength.

I believe that I would make a good Science Advisor as I like to sit down and think about things. I regularly do this in games of Civilization III that I play. Sometimes I sit down for quite a bit of time thinking of the consequences of researching this, over researching that. And that is what we need. Someone who will sit down, and spend some of their time thinking about what needs to be done because blind, erratic research will ultimately result in complete and total failure.

By officially declaring candidacy, I make a promise not only to myself but to the entire group that I will research the best techs and I will steer us in the right direction. I will do my part to better the empire, and I will listen to the people.

So when it's finally that day, finally time to vote, I sincerly hope that you vote for me. Thank you."

Questions for any of the candidates? Ask them here.

-------------------------
Tassadar is an official supporter of Trip/Space05us in the Civ3 Democracy Game.

	10-06-2002 13:55									#2
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Your post sure make me feel that you at least are able to write good letters! Are you some sort of politician IRL? As it stands now, you seem to be the right guy.

	10-06-2002 14:15									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai Your post sure make me feel that you at least are able to write good letters! Are you some sort of politician IRL? As it stands now, you seem to be the right guy.

Well thank you for your kind words.

And on the politician comment, I am a journalist.

	10-06-2002 15:02									#4
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i agree. come the time to vote u are my choice.

	10-06-2002 16:05									#5
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You can count on my vote when the time comes Tassadar.

	10-06-2002 16:12									#6
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It sounds like you are a good candidate, Tassadar, but I suggest you sit down NOW, think a while as you seemed to be used to and then tell us what your global plan for the ancient times is.

	10-06-2002 16:17									#7
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Tassadar is a solid player. He has his head on streight and seems to be most reasonable. He has my vote.

	10-06-2002 16:54									#8
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Yes, Tassadar: if you become Science Minister/Advisor, which techs will you advise the ppl aim for first? As for advancing science, how would you go about this? Would you aim to convince the ppl that libraries and universities in every city that can afford them creates a strong "knowledge economy" ( sorry, New Zealanders would laugh at that phrase)? Or would you advise that concentrating science into a few dedicated cities is the way to go? Will you aim to build a super science city, as is so popular in Civ2?

	10-06-2002 18:06									#9
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You seem to know what your doing ... What would your goals be in the ancient age?

	10-06-2002 18:40									#10
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ooops...missed this. This is my campaign promise:
I will always have 3 techs in order of priority so the prez knows what to go for if we acquire techs. I will support tech-trading as long as it's reasonable but oppose too much tech-selling until we have a strong position in the tech race, so that our selling doesn't end up leaving us backwards. However, once our competitiveness is assured, tech should be used as our tool in buying luxuries and alliances.

I will search out general paths to take, and present them clearly in polls. Depending on what the current need is, I will send us toward peaceful improvements and wonders to get ahead in races, or go for military tech. Our first priorities should be bronze working, alphabet, iron working, warrior code, and writing (in that order). Ceremonial Burial is also a high priority, but we will hopefully start as a religious civ and not need to reasearch it. The wheel and masonry can be traded for/bought from the other civs so we should not waste time researching them.

	10-06-2002 18:47									#11
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i asked this of Tassadar last night, now I will ask it of Civman2000

Civman, during your time in office, despite our nation's situation, which specific techs do you predict you will put the most emphasis on?

	10-06-2002 18:51									#12
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literature, republic, writing, iron working, feudalism, chivalry...

I think that should be far enough ahead to go for now.

But even if I disagree, my reports will almost always say what hte people chose to research. I will attempt to show people which ways are the best, but ultimately the people decide.

	10-06-2002 23:15									#13
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Candidates Tassadar and Civman2000:

What are your positions on scientific spending in the early game?

Should we allocate a large % of funds towards research, or towards treasury build-up in order to purchase such technologies from rivals? Or should we demand technologies as tribute from weak neighbours?

Once we have achieved a strong infrastructure (with libraries and universities), what will be your new position on the allocation of funds for science?

	10-06-2002 23:41									#14
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as a possible military minster, and a jingoistic nationalist, i want iron working and the wheel asap.

all candidates: state your first few advances. (civman already did)

	11-06-2002 02:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Franses It sounds like you are a good candidate, Tassadar, but I suggest you sit down NOW, think a while as you seemed to be used to and then tell us what your global plan for the ancient times is.

Defensive the the ancient times is a must in order to maintain an empire, as if you lack on defense your empire could fall prey to a more powerful enemy. This is why, if we do not already start out with it I would go for Bronze Working. Because of this aspect, it would be preferable to be Greece as a 1.3.1 (Attack/Defense/Movement) value compared to the 1.2.1 of the spearman. However, the spearman will probably be efficent. It would also be preferable to have a barracks in the city, but that it out of my hands.

Then we must build our culture up. Although I am pretty sure that we are going to have a civilization that is religious, if not then I would recommend going for Ceremonial Burial for the temples it provides. Temples are extremly important, as they are usually the NUMBER ONE choice to build up your culture, and they keep your people happy. At higher difficulty levels, this is quite hard.

My plan would then be to try to race to literature because if we can build it early on, literature is a definite plus. It gives us culture, and a tech that has been researched by at least two civilizations. This will be effective until Education, the tech advance that makes the Great Library obsolete. However, literature also allows us to build Libraries and increase our science research early on, a very important aspect to look at.

Immediately following Literature, researching Code of Laws would be benificial for the sole reason that the couthouse reduces corruption, and I anticipate that if Trip (whom I strongtly support) is elected, he will attempt to expand and therefore with the difficulty level I anticipate, will have corruption problems. Courthouses can bring a 10.1 (Waste.Production) to a 6.4 city. Although the number may seem insigificant to some people, it is very significant as for each shield produced other than the first, it cuts the build time by half. A temple that took 60 turns, for example, would now take about 10. Hm...

Then, I believe iron working would be a viable option as it offers a unit that has the highest attack value (next to the Catapult) of any unit in the ancient era. It would also bring us one step closer to Construction which has the Aqueduct which can let our cities grow, which would equal more shields and commerce which equals more science.

There are also other advantages for going to Construction as well. It provides the Colloseum, which I believe turns one/two unhappy face(s) into a content one(s) which will be nesisary especially for completing wars. It also allows us to build fortresses which can enhance our units ability to fight which is essential for survival of our empire. And it opens the door to the Great Wall, which boosts our walls effectiveness against barbarians and at the level that is predicted were going to set to, this could be a benficial wonder and because it is 200 shields, it is very cheap to build.

Then in order to enhance our economy, currency would be my next choice only because of the Marketplace improvement that it provides. The marketplace will help us generate more gold, and gold is very important to have.

After that, although no immediate benfitis arise from this tech, I would suggest philosophy because it opens the doorway to Republic, which is an advanced form of government that generates more....gold. Getting out of Despotism is very important, and Republic in my opinion is the only viable option.

After that, Pottery would become a viable option as it is a very cheap tech which opens the doors to Map Making. Map Making is a tech that offers boats, harbours, and the Great Lighthouse. However depending on the situation, Map Making could be very useless or very useful.

In order to finish off the remaining techs, I would go for Warrior Code as the archer as a 2 attack, 1 defense, one movement. This is preferred over the wheels' chariot which is 1 attack, 1 defense, 2 movement. Although if we are at war, movement maybe preferred over attack, although I personally see the situation as highly unlikely.

After which, if we did not already research it, I would go for the wheel if not only to get to Horseback Riding which gives us the horseman: A unit that has Two attack, 1 defense, and 2 movement. That literally combined the Chariot and Archer in order to form a powerful, fast unit.

Depending on the situation, I would either for for Map Making of Mysticism. Map Making would offer us costal trading however, on a pangea map that probably will not be useflu. However if were on an island Map Making could be very useful. Mysticism offers us the Oracle great wonder, which doubles the effects of all temples and I believe produces 4 culture per turn. Not an amazing number when compared to Great Library, but the double-temples effect would certainly be helpful. It costs about 300 shields which I believe that we could get through easily considering the projected strength of the empire.

Then, as there are no choices left, I would go for Polytheism. This would cause an advancement in era, however, I would like to research Monarchy if only for the Hanging Gardens great wonder. The Hanging Gardens produces 4 culture, costs 300 just like the Oracle, however, it makes 3 citizens content in the city its built in and 1 citizen content in all other cities. Combined with th effect of the colloseum would make 3 citizens content everywhere the colloseum was.

That would be my plan for the ancient era. Please be advised that this plan may or may not change due to wars, trading, or unforseen circumstances. This plan does not take into consideration the cost of running the imrpovements such as the harbour. This plan has emphasis on peaceful technologies although it can be adapted for wartime as well.

This plan may change due to the polls being the way they are. I do hope this has answered some of your questions and if you have more, just ask!

Tassadar

	11-06-2002 02:21									#16
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hrmph. courthouses before swordsmen?

	11-06-2002 02:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Captain Candidates Tassadar and Civman2000: What are your positions on scientific spending in the early game? Should we allocate a large % of funds towards research, or towards treasury build-up in order to purchase such technologies from rivals? Or should we demand technologies as tribute from weak neighbours?

My stance on this would be to increase science spending so that we are still making gold per turn, but just one more notch to the right would start taking away gold. However, if might be benificial in some situations to actually turn it right a notch in order to complete some technologies.

However, a balance MUST be made between the treasury and the science buget. As much as I want the science buget to be high, I would be willing to support a cut in order to maintain a good treasury as maintaining a scientific lead over other civilizations is important however having money to buy science, maps, alliances is also important.

But like I said before, I would prefer high science spending.

quote: Once we have achieved a strong infrastructure (with libraries and universities), what will be your new position on the allocation of funds for science?

Oh, this would only be reason to spend MORE on science. Now that we are producing MORE beakers, and because we have university I'm assuming were now in the middle ages, it would be much more important to stay ahead of the competition.

You can fall behind in ancient and maybe even middle, but come industrial age and you really have to keep up.

	11-06-2002 02:24									#18
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX hrmph. courthouses before swordsmen?

Yes, courthouses before swordsmen. Swordsmen are an offensive military unit that should only be built if we are going for war. So if war were to happen, courthouses *could* be put on hold but in my opinion, corruption is something we should worry about a little more.

Offensive military units should be built later in the game, once we establish an empire and begin defending it well. However again, it's all subject to change depending on various situations.

	11-06-2002 02:25									#19
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Your opinions are actually not that important, unlike, say, those of the Foreign, Military, Trade, Interior etc. Ministers, as science is fairly clear-cut: you either want to research this or research that, which is easy to determine solely through polling, whereas the others *generally* poll on broader policy issues.

	11-06-2002 03:07									#20
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science rate as high as possible while still being efficient (not being able to get the same science at a lower rate), at least early on. The flaws in Tassadar's plan are the other civs. They almost always (in my experience) get mysticism before you. No plans should be too detailed because so much depends on our starting techs and the other civs.

	11-06-2002 03:19									#21
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 science rate as high as possible while still being efficient (not being able to get the same science at a lower rate), at least early on.

Yes, at least we agree on that.

quote: The flaws in Tassadar's plan are the other civs. They almost always (in my experience) get mysticism before you.

Although in my experience this does not happen as often....It is almost a certanty that we are going to have to trade for some techs as the AI will have them, and we will not especially because of the higher difficulty level. So, this simply opens up a door for possible trade. And if it doesn't happen....Great

quote: No plans should be too detailed because so much depends on our starting techs and the other civs.

If I may quote from my own plan:

quote: This plan may change due to the polls being the way they are.

That's basically saying that my plan will probably change because were a different Civ, or we've traded for techs, or 'unforseen circumstances', etc...

	11-06-2002 09:18									#22
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Just debated for about an hour over many topics, though mainly between me and tassadar over science. Other topics include what civ to choose and some politics (though i edited it to remove the unimportant stuff, including some of the political alliance formations (in sum ninot and timeline allied themselves, though didn't join, the AAACC3/imperialist party)):

22:50:44 [Tassadar5000] civman
22:50:48 [civman2000] hi
22:50:49 [Timeline] your compition is here.....tassadar, do i smell a debate coming on?
22:51:26 [civman2000] lol, i saw a few demo gamers here and figured there was an unofficial mini-demo-chat
22:51:30 [Ninot] ooh, a debate? that could be interesting
22:52:20 [civman2000] so what should we debate about
22:52:31 [Dragoon_6th] i like debates only when i win
22:52:45 [civman2000] me too...i'm a relentless debater
22:53:10 [civman2000] i argue until i win or i realize that i thought the other side was saying something else...
22:53:29 [civman2000] but i never cave in and agree with what i originally disagreed about
22:54:02 [civman2000] usually i win because the other side doenst care enough to keep arguing
22:54:19 [Timeline] civman, why do you think you should get my vote in the election?
22:55:51 [civman2000] vote for me and vote for deatiled choices!
22:56:11 [Tassadar5000] Can you back that arguement up?
22:56:31 [civman2000] how am i supposed to do that?
22:56:37 [Ninot] civman, your science?
22:56:42 [Tassadar5000] I dunno, what do you mean by "detailed choices"
22:56:51 [civman2000] that's what i promise, it's not like i have to prove it!
22:57:18 [Ninot] i have a question for the candidates!
22:57:24 [civman2000] let me find a link...i ran for sci advisor in the civ2 game in june, i'll find my more detailed promises
22:57:26 [Tassadar5000] ask
22:59:26 [civman2000] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...10&pagenumber=1
22:59:29 [Tassadar5000] I'm not sure timeline. i agree with Trip a lot, but I dont agree with Expansion and Military
22:59:35 [civman2000] my promises in the civ2 game
22:59:49 [Timeline] LOL CIVMAN< YOU LOST?!
23:00:28 [civman2000] i was the only person who got close to deeating an incumbent that month though
23:00:37 [Ninot] ok.. i am in the anti-party party.. so im gonna do a write in vote.. and put in "Guest"
23:01:04 [civman2000] ixnay put about 5 hours into his very last report, even though his earlier ones werent too great
23:03:02 [Tassadar5000] Civ, you haven't given any good reasons on why people should vote for you (er....i'm hungry right now, so i might not make sense. its a geek thing)
23:03:12 [Ninot] hey Civman2000, i gota two part question
23:03:32 [Ninot] its slightly selfish.. actually, only one part
23:03:55 [Ninot] does your party support either of the candidates in the foreign minister race?
23:05:19 [Tassadar5000] Any questions for me?
23:05:26 [civman2000] no official party position, but iu support ninot
23:05:26 [Timeline] Trip, does the imperialist party support anyone in the city planning or foriegn minister race?
23:05:30 [Ninot] does your party support either of the candidates in the foreign ministry race?
23:05:34 [civman2000] the other gy's too agressive
23:06:07 [Ninot] well, i can't reveal my science advisor vote yet, cuz your both here.. and i cant say ill vote for both of ya with both of ya here, rofl
23:06:26 [Timeline] city planner: Myself, Sir Ralph, and some other guys thats a settler
23:07:05 [Tassadar5000] Anyway....Civman, why do you believe you'd be better at the job than I am (beware, lag is happening with me again.)
23:07:07 [Ninot] Turambar is my oponent Trip
23:07:12 [Timeline] so trip, I would be very interest in your party leanings
23:07:33 [Trip] I have my own party, is that leaning?
23:08:41 [Ninot] see, i support the Imperialists, but i dont wanna join anything till the game starts.. sorry
23:08:41 [civman2000] tassadar: look at that link:http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...10&pagenumber=1
23:09:08 [Timeline] yea i am same as ninot, i support the imperialists.....
23:09:10 [civman2000] my promises before, pretty much the same now. Look in the debate thread for more
23:09:38 [Trip] it appears as though the election will be held tomorrow evening
23:09:40 [Timeline] by electing me, you would be electing someone who will help and support your agenda...timeline, just what the doc ordered
23:10:03 [Tassadar5000] Um, you lost that Civman. And, you believe your better than me because you'll always have three techs?
23:10:07 [Ninot] yeah Civman.. but i prefer to type imperialists than AAACC3.. imperial is a natural thing for me to type
23:10:32 [civman2000] tassadar, that's just specifics
23:10:47 [Ninot] well, right now, it looks like your views are pretty much along the same lines as mine as concerning how we should play the game
23:10:55 [Ninot] that and i like many of your candidates
23:10:59 [civman2000] the basic idea is that i always make sure the prez knows exactly what tto do, and guide the people in choosing the best techs
23:11:33 [civman2000] in my experience in the civ2 game, the candidates rarely differ very much in their ideas for the game
23:11:48 [Tassadar5000] I've already said that (in many more words) in the Science Advisor thread. So again, why do you think youd be better?
23:11:48 [Timeline] i will support the imperialists because in my task of city planning, i will ensure our cities are ready to make you look like an effective, competant leader
23:12:28 [Timeline] we will be prepared for battle if neseccary and science will be moved along to make us an advanced nation
23:12:33 [Ninot] but, in civ3, i will bet there might be folk who take over who abhore war enough to just sit back and gain culture..
23:12:51 [civman2000] In all my experience playing civ, science has always been my top priority
23:13:03 [Trip] Those who support me me in the first administration will be pleasantly rewarded when my coup overthrows the government and installs a dictatorship
23:13:15 [Timeline] science would also be my top priority.......
23:13:19 [civman2000] as a result, i have gained much experitse in scientific excellence!
23:13:44 [Timeline] and tassadar, if i am elected city planner, i will boost our commerce output to the maxim possible, same for you civman
23:14:08 [Tassadar5000] As I think I have already proven, I like to sit down and really think about things including science. I've never lost a game due to science. Timeline, thats a good thing
23:14:19 [civman2000] science can aid our military and keep it competitive, but after the early game and except during wartime it should focus on culture/wonders
23:15:10 [civman2000] nor have i. I almost always make keeping my tech lead the top priority
23:15:12 [Tassadar5000] Civ: Yes I agree, In the very beginning focusing on Defense is prudent, and then culture and science, with offense coming last
23:16:07 [civman2000] oonce i have a comfortable lead of 2-3, i will sell them for luxuries/treaties and then sell to everyone else, but I still try to keep the lead at almost all costs
23:16:35 [Ninot] well, ok.. a tech like radio, would you be willing to sell that pretty quickly?
23:16:45 [Timeline] i am sure ninot knows that if he sells techs, you must sell them to every civ cause they trade next turn?
23:17:07 [Trip] what if we don't get a tech lead ever
23:17:17 [civman2000] sure! Definitely, with no hesitation unless it will advnace the other civs an era
23:17:29 [Trip] if we're going to be playing on a harder difficulty level, ala Diety, chances are that we may never get ahead
23:17:33 [Tassadar5000] You sell when you have a lead of 2-3? That's risky, especially consdering that the civilizations trade with each other every turn. I try to wait until a significant lead, or until an emergency arises
23:17:57 [civman2000] hmmm...i usually play on regent, sometimes on manoarch
23:17:59 [Timeline] we wont be playing on diety
23:17:59 [Trip] Tass, the AI usually catches up anyways
23:17:59 [Ninot] ack.. dont tell me that
23:18:13 [Trip] unless you're surrounded by isolated civs, then I suggest selling them
23:18:23 [Ninot] anyways.. yeah, i know about the tech trading, i would be sure to get as much as possible for everything i trade
23:18:28 [civman2000] tassadar: i dont sell immediately. I sell if i need money or when my lux trades/RoPs, etc, expoire
23:18:28 [Trip] oterwise, we won't get anything for them, and the AI will quickly catch up anyways
23:18:44 [Tassadar5000] Trip: The AI will catch up to you no matter what. But trading the techs only makes them come faster. Oh ok Civman, I misunderstood.
23:18:58 [Timeline] trip, question: (if you dont answer i am voting for the settler: how much do you value early exploration?
23:19:02 [Trip] yes, but you can at least get something out of it
23:19:27 [Trip] exploration of the immediate area where you plan to build cities is important
23:19:37 [civman2000] i think exploration should be very high priority, that's why i prefer expansionist
23:19:40 [Tassadar5000] Sometimes selling a tech to a civ can suddenly give them a small boost in research. Ive seen it happen.
23:19:47 [Timeline] ok, what about getting contact with as many other civs as [possible?
23:19:57 [Trip] but until you establish a firm infrastructure, anything other than that (aside from sending out a lone warrior to do his will) is best to wait for
23:20:10 [Trip] contact is always good
23:20:19 [Trip] trading techs early is important
23:20:34 [civman2000] but if we discover a new continent how important is it to contact everyone
23:20:35 [Trip] send out a lone warrior or two to search for civs
23:20:36 [Tassadar5000] Early, yes. But when you start getting industrial, etc...I would disagree.
23:20:46 [Timeline] contact is vital for wonders like the great library, which i am sure civman and tassadar are very interested in
23:20:47 [Trip] depends on what part of the game you mean
23:20:51 [civman2000] it can be very expensive or time consuming
23:21:34 [Timeline] yes but it [Great Library] only benefits you from civs you have discovered
23:21:36 [Trip] we COULD go straight to literacy
23:21:38 [civman2000] but the problem is it can only last for a few techs before becoming obselete...
23:21:44 [Trip] and start building the pyramids in one city from the get-go
23:21:51 [Timeline] so, contact with many civs is important for this wonder
23:22:01 [Trip] it becomes obsolete with what? electricity? education?
23:22:05 [civman2000] Trip: I usually do (after geting the military essentials), and just trade/buy the rest
23:22:07 [Tassadar5000] But during the time it gives you those techs...
23:22:17 [civman2000] education
23:22:33 [Trip] I think it was electricity in 2, that's what I'm thinking of
23:22:33 [Ninot] well if we get one city built to pump out settlers, and have the capitol building the pyramids, that could work
23:22:51 [Tassadar5000] But sometimes if your lucky, the computer decides to research all techs but education until it has to. But that hardly ever happens to me
23:23:02 [Trip] I think if we want any chance at the GL, we'll have to go straight for literacy, and start building the Pyramids VERY early
23:23:29 [Tassadar5000] What civ are we being again? Egypt?
23:23:39 [Trip] most likely
23:23:40 [Timeline] why do you value paramids so highly, its just part of your militaristic play style isnt it?
23:23:41 [civman2000] trip: well i say it's worth it!
23:23:41 [Ninot] probably
23:23:43 [Trip] that or babylon
23:24:01 [civman2000] pyramids is to just build up shields
23:24:05 [Ninot] well, i value the pyramids because if we get literacy before they are finnished, its an easy switch to GL
23:24:12 [Timeline] gotta go vote babylon
23:24:28 [Ninot] i voted Rome!
23:24:29 [Tassadar5000] TImeline! Vote egypt, not babylon!
23:24:37 [civman2000] i like iroqs...
23:24:55 [Timeline] no...babylon scientific civ man! (dont know if egypt is?)
23:24:59 [civman2000] and babs too...
23:25:17 [Trip] egypt is what, industrious and religious?
23:25:18 [Tassadar5000] Egypt is industrious. It allows us to complete things faster
23:25:24 [Timeline] religious, only 1 turn anarchy drool
23:25:28 [Tassadar5000] yes trip.
23:25:42 [civman2000] i like both, but the iroqs can give you an even bigger tech lead on a pangea map...
23:25:52 [Trip] later on Tass
23:25:57 [civman2000] religious is top priority
23:25:58 [Trip] once city size > 12
23:26:04 [Timeline] indy gets you faster settlers too right?
23:26:12 [Timeline] that could go along well with city planing........
23:26:18 [Tassadar5000] yeah, getting a city size 12 isnt too difficult.
23:26:19 [Timeline] i mean faster workers agh
23:26:25 [Ninot] uhh, faster workers, yeah
23:26:26 [Tassadar5000] and the workers are a nice bonus as well
23:26:29 [civman2000] yep
23:26:46 [civman2000] yeah, if only we could have every bonus...
23:26:48 [Trip] let's hope we don't get stuck in the middle of a jungle O_o
23:26:56 [Timeline] ok.....sigh, i shall follow my comrades
23:27:00 [Timeline] my god be with us
23:27:00 [civman2000] i made a mod where every civ had every bonus and every uu
23:27:02 [Trip] we should make our own uber-civ
23:27:31 [civman2000] tthe uus didnt make golden ages and it turned out you needed to appease all 6 bonuses to get a ga
23:27:57 [civman2000] only differences between civs were starting techs
23:28:25 [civman2000] that made india (i think, commercial and religious, right) the best
23:29:58 [Tassadar5000] This isnt much of a debate, is it Civman?
23:30:50 [civman2000] the debate was good
23:31:02 [civman2000] we just agree a lot
23:31:15 [Timeline] well you have me both thinking, out of all the ministarial positions, science is gonna be the hardest to decide
23:31:18 [civman2000] that's the problem...
23:31:21 [Tassadar5000] Civman, what are your few starting techs
23:32:45 [civman2000] starting techs: bronze and iron working, warrior code, alphabet, writing
23:33:57 [Tassadar5000] Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Alphabet, Writing, Literature.
23:37:11 [civman2000] oh in the top techs i forgot cermeonial burial...it's been months since i wasnt religious
23:37:33 [Tassadar5000] Civman, just being prepared for everything.
23:37:53 [Tassadar5000] i'm always religious when I choose someone, unless i'm persia.
23:38:21 [civman2000] yeah, persia rules too...everything about them except not being religious
23:46:47 [Tassadar5000] Civman: I understand why you start with Bronze Working. But why Iron Working, and then why WARRIOR CODE?
23:47:02 [civman2000] that wasnt in order, that was just a list
23:47:32 [Tassadar5000] Then what order do you predict it will be in?
23:48:18 [civman2000] bronze working, warrior code, iron working, alphabet (if we havent traded for it yet), writing...
23:48:50 [civman2000] then maybe literature...
23:48:50 [Tassadar5000] And that may change due to unforseen circumstances, of course. But why warrior code?
23:49:04 [civman2000] i'm not sure
23:49:21 [Space05us] cheap offensive units
23:49:24 [civman2000] usually i'll have traded for it or found it in a hut by that time...
23:51:41 [Tassadar5000] Civman, in your long term plans, what are you placing emphasis on?
23:52:06 [civman2000] too far off
23:52:16 [civman2000] i'm worrying about the first term for now
23:52:45 [civman2000] but in the middle ages get all those wonders from unneeded techs asap, if our science is secured by then
23:52:51 [Tassadar5000] Er, let me rephrase that. What are your plans for after the middle ages (assuming we get there fairly quickly)
23:53:34 [civman2000] feudalism-chivalry-engineering-invention-gunpowder
23:53:48 [civman2000] trade/buy for montheism and theology
23:53:59 [civman2000] past there i cant say
23:54:25 [Tassadar5000] Hmm...In my experience, you just named the techs that the computer researches first. (Deud, Chiv, Engine, Invention, Gun)
23:54:59 [civman2000] well, the ai is smart and goes for the good techs!
23:55:16 [civman2000] but you can always get monotheism out of all the sicentific civs...

	11-06-2002 19:03									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

double post
deleted

	11-06-2002 19:03									#24
	Tired of ads?

horses, swords, military expansion (stopping when we are dominant and corruption makes further acquisition pointless), all the while building roads, getting luxuries/strat resources, then switching to cultural expansion, temples, libraries, courthouses, trade...

security techs first, then productivity/infrastructure techs, then culture techs

whoever takes this approach or a similar one in the ancient age will have my vote.

	12-06-2002 02:07									#25
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Captain horses, swords, military expansion (stopping when we are dominant and corruption makes further acquisition pointless), all the while building roads, getting luxuries/strat resources, then switching to cultural expansion, temples, libraries, courthouses, trade... security techs first, then productivity/infrastructure techs, then culture techs whoever takes this approach or a similar one in the ancient age will have my vote.

If you read back, you will notice that we both have taken similiar stances to the ancient age. This will, no doubt complicate your vote.

I suggest reading back to see exactly which plan you agree with more.

	12-06-2002 02:38									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Again, the Science Advisor is really a secretarial post. The only real responsibility is advising on what to research next, and that is essentially determined by the polls. You should vote for someone who will give you good polls, with lots of forthought, etc.

	12-06-2002 02:38									#27
	Got spare money?

I support Tassadar, because he seems able to think calmly about every consequences. Not that Civman is bad, but I think Tass will do a better job in this position, because of his foreseeing ability.

	12-06-2002 02:51									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

Why does everybody ignore me??? (runs crying home to mommy)

	12-06-2002 03:13									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Might have something to do with posting every 2 minutes all day on this forum

	12-06-2002 03:21									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Everone else posts just as often (well, a few at least .