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Should it be illegal to call homosexuality a sin? (Time out:0 days after 11-06-2002, 23:57)
Yes, in public especially
Yes, even in churches
No, it is a matter of free speech
No, because it is a sin
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Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 11-06-2002 23:52 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Sweden Moves to Criminalize Religious Beliefs Support Apolyton

June 10, 2002

Sweden Moves to Criminalize Opposition to Homosexuality
By Bob Kellogg, correspondent


The Swedish government is moving toward prohibiting Christians from voicing biblical positions on issues.

The Swedish Parliament has moved to within one step of changing the nation’s constitution to ban speech or materials opposing homosexuality and any other alternate lifestyles. If the amendment becomes reality, violators could be subject to prison sentences.

Swedish lawmakers narrowly approved the constitutional amendment last week. Annalie Enochson, a Christian member of Parliament, said the homosexual lobby in Sweden is small but powerful. She noted the measure passed with only 56 percent of the vote.

"Usually, if you change the constitution it should be nearly everybody — I mean, it should be about 80 or 90 percent," Enochson said. "Fifty-six is very, very low."

The amendment must be voted on again after elections this September. If it passes again, it would become effective next January. Enochson said under the amendment, Christians could be arrested for speaking out in churches.

"That means people coming from (the homosexual) lobby group could sit in our churches having on the tape recorder and listen to somebody and say, 'What you're saying now is against our constitution.'"

She said anyone convicted of violating the constitutional amendment could spend six months to four years in jail.

Bob Knight, who heads the Culture and Family Institute at Concerned Women for America, predicted the United States will soon have similar laws.

"The Swedish example should be a wake-up call to the rest of the world that the real intent is to criminalize Christianity," Knight said.

Enochson added pro-homosexual activists will soon be lobbying to make homosexual marriages legal in Sweden.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:01
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Sad, totalitarianism...hardcore

What Morons. Free speech my ass.

There sewing there own seeds for destruction. Not my concern, yet anyway.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:02
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Tired of ads?

People can call it "Dinglebert's Romantic Sea-Turtle" as long as they don't teach it as punishable.

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
Warlord

Apr 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:03
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Bob Kellogg?

By the way, that is a crap article. Any country is 'within on step' of something, but sometimes it is a very big step. Looks like some people are feeling threatened.

orange is offline orange
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:03 Visit orange's homepage!
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as long as the groups are not physically harming anyone, or speaking of harming anyone, their right to free speech should be protected.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:07
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Where is the article from ? Link please.

November Adam is offline November Adam
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Jul 2001
time: 22:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:07
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Next they will say that it is illegal to call adultrey a sin because politicans will feel threatend.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:08 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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http://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0021073.html

faded glory is offline faded glory
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Jan 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:11
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oh no wonder. No CNN or Fox, no believe. I knew Sweden wasnt that communist (yet)

orange is offline orange
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:12 Visit orange's homepage!
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What about the BBC, Stevarino?

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:15
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Where is it on the BBC?

Not on the Google news search: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=sweden

Not on the BBC search, either: http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin...eden&scope=news

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:16
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I don't have a clue what's happening in my own country as their's a world cup going on. However I stil read the paper and I haven't seen anything about that at all. Possibly that page has missed something. (considering the type of page that is I almost find it likely...).

If it's true in the way it's portrayed in the article I'm against it. It's just so stupid to say homosexuality is a sin and the number of people opposing homosexuality in Sweden based on the Bible are so few so I don't see why they bother.

red_jon is offline red_jon
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:19 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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Of course people should be able to say it is a sin. It's annoying as hell (especially when I get people telling me that's where I'm going ) but it's their right to free speech.

As orange said, as long as they aren't speaking of harming anyone.

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:24 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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what an unbiased article!

quote:
Annalie Enochson, a Christian member of Parliament, said...

quote:
She noted the...

quote:
...Enochson said

quote:
Enochson said...

quote:
She said...

quote:
Bob Knight, who heads the Culture and Family Institute at Concerned Women for America, predicted...

yippie a second person mentioned in the article!
back to our star
quote:
Enochson added...

orange is offline orange
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:24 Visit orange's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnIII
Where is it on the BBC?

Not on the Google news search: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=sweden

Not on the BBC search, either: http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin...eden&scope=news


no no, he made it sound like CNN and Fox are the only credible news sources in the world.

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:26
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Tired of ads?

Fox, credible? Mwahahaha.

I can't find it on Reuters, either. I give up.

Mark, see what I mean about it being a crap article?

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:28
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I've checked out the Swedish parliaments decisions last week. There's the decision to give homosexual couples the possiblity to apply for adoption. But I can't see anything about this story....

Stefu is offline Stefu
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Jan 1970
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Somehow, I'm getting this image of pork industry challenging Moslem groups because they're opposing pork-eating. Or meat industry in general going after Hindus. Precedents, precedents...

If true, it would be just another silly law coming out of Sweden, even though this would be particularily offensive case of thought policing. Good old social engineering! Too bad it doesn't work in real life as well as it does in SMAC.

Article, though, doesn't come from most trustworthy source in the world. It could be a case of more innocent (though even my conception of what the more innocent version of this would be still would go against principles of free speech) law being misrepresented. And I loved this quote from end of the article:

quote:
Enochson added pro-homosexual activists will soon be lobbying to make homosexual marriages legal in Sweden.


It's like they're saying that now after homosexual activists have legislated for less freedom they'll do something EVEN MORE EVIL and LEGISLATE FOR MORE FREEDOM! BOOGA WOOGA WOOGA WOOGA!

Do we have our resident Swedes ready to give straight dope on this?

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:32
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Wait, I've found it. It wasn't last week though. It seems to be a law that adds homosexual, bisexual etc to the law against "hets mot folkgrupp". Ie, persecution/agitation against group of people. The same has been done before as it's against the law to persecute and agaitate against jews etc.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:33 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

I tried to look it up but I got stumped when it said "logga in".

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:34 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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okay where is the link...

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kropotkin
Wait, I've found it. It wasn't last week though. It seems to be a law that adds homosexual, bisexual etc to the law against "hets mot folkgrupp". Ie, persecution/agitation against group of people. The same has been done before as it's against the law to persecute and agaitate against jews etc.

And did your resident Nazis kick up a fuss about that?

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:36
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Remove this text

It's in Swedish... But I'll see if they've got a translation.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 00:43
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Nope, no luck with the link....

I'd say that the article at the top streches it a bit. It does not seem to be a law against speaking against the lifestyle but against percecuting of homosexuals.

Clear Skies is offline Clear Skies
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looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Jul 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 01:20 Visit Clear Skies's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnIII

And did your resident Nazis kick up a fuss about that?


IIRC there are very very few ultra-right-wingers in Sweden...I could be wrong, though.

Monk is offline Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 01:35 Visit Monk's homepage!
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I checked out some Danish and Swedish sites on homosexuality.

The Swedish Parliament has moved to within one step of changing the nation’s constitution to ban speech or materials opposing homosexuality and any other alternate lifestyles.

Herein lies the error. Like the wise Kropotkin points out so wisely, Sweden isn't moving to ban anything "opposing homosexuality". If this was the case, you could be sure it would be getting actual international attention. They're going to include homosexuality in the category of hate speech. There's a huge difference here. I know Denmark has a similar law, which IIRC was last enforced when a politician expressed his concern "The Muslims who come here are merely waiting until they're strong enough in numbers, before they take over the country and blahblahblah." And of course the hate speech legislation will still apply when the hate comes from a Christian priest in a church.

Lincoln, I checked out the Family.org site, and really... you should get your information from less biased sites, or at least be more critical about what you read. No offense meant. But from the little reading I've done, I'm tempted to say the bible-thumpers yet again prove to the world they haven't got a clue what's going on outside their own back yard, much less in Sweden.

"The real intent is to criminalize Christianity" my ass. I'd like the "journalist" in question to answer me, if Sweden seeks to criminalize Christianity, how that legislation would ever get around the eighty-something percent of the Swedes who are members of the national Protestant church... but I don't think I'd get a serious answer anyway.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 01:40
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I of cource second the wise monk and his post that he has written so wisley.

Monk is offline Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
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IIRC there are very very few ultra-right-wingers in Sweden...I could be wrong, though.

There are about ten times as many as in Denmark, despite the fact that Sweden is only roughly twice as big. The common theory is that it's because the new right-wave seems to have passed Sweden by, leaving little room for the aggressive loonies.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 01:43
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Yeah, there's a couple around but we don't elect them to parliament as in Denmark and a number of other states.

Vesayen is offline Vesayen
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2002 01:48
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Apparently these morons didnt learn a lesson about liberty from WW2......

 
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