13-06-2002 19:56									#1
	New Ideas - all read Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As Hagakure Dip is finished and Not So Newbie Dip is coming to a close, I was considering starting another couple of games. However, I wanted to take a quick opinion poll about what would be best for ADC.

1) Is it a help or a hindrance to start new games when we have several already running that we can't fill(Imp Dip, Frontier dip, Apocalypse)? I'm happy NOT to start any new games if you think it complicates things further.

2) If I do start a new game, what variant do you want. I'm tempted to run another standard game - we don't have enough of these in my opinion, and they prove popular. But have a look at the following ideas and let me know if they might be worth a go:

First, a standard map but played anonymously. This does NOT mean gunboat - press will be allowed but only through me (ie, you send me emails with the message, I pass it on to the right person; and I will remove any identity beyond your country name). This gets round the age-old problem we have of cross-gaming and will add a bit of mystery that is currently lacking.

Second, again a standard map, with standard rules. This time though, we play in realtime. We choose a weekend and try to get a time when everyone will be online and we play with 15 minute deadlines, probably using icq for dipping and Realpolitick for quick mapping. It may take several hours, but I think it would add the urgency of FTF dip and also be a good laugh.

Anyway, let me know what you all think. I'm equally happy sitting on my butt doing nothing, it's your call.

	13-06-2002 20:01									#2
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I like both ideas. Particularly the realtime option.

Apocralypse and the Final keep stalling because players go off and I don't really know what the active roster is. Apocralypse, I think Victor is gone, or with limited acces. Is Fitz gone too?

	13-06-2002 20:30									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't mind the first option, I've devloped such a reputation I'm sure.

Couldn't do the second option. As I doubt I will have the time.

	13-06-2002 23:57									#4
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Orange1,
I believe we have about 10 solid players if they play,
Defiant
Ruffhaus
Orange1
Orange
Chazzy
Gerwald
Berzerker(he had mentioned he wanted to start getting back into some games)
Snowfire(School is out and he says he is ready)
VGR, he was in apocralypse and is a steady player
November Adam( is becoming a quick study)
Victor(but he is roaming around the countryside)
His Divine Widow
I think what we need to do is finish NSN, and the two big maps, 50 and Frontier, I would suggest maybe drawing in those games. I would love to continue them but they sure are delayed and then we could start fresh with maybe more energy and stick with the reliable players.

Just my two cents worth.

	14-06-2002 00:15									#5
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I would love to play the anonymous thing.

	14-06-2002 00:16									#6
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Hello everyone, btw.

I've been away from here for a long time, since this here thing requires committment, which I can't give while in school.

	14-06-2002 00:32									#7
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Siro, you still drive me nutts, look at your first post and then your second. Although I like your picture of Netanyho(sp) sorry.

	14-06-2002 01:42									#8
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Bahhh... Active rosters? That's why these games are in the tank? At least blame it on the Argentinian Futbol team's pathetic performance or something that remotely mediates your slacking....

ADCT Final
Austria - Defiant
England - Stefu
France - RUFFHAUS8
Germany - The Orange_1
Italy - Sahib
Russia - Gerwald
Turkey - End is Forever

Day of the Apocralypse
Britain - End is Forever
Egypt - November Adam
France - Chazzy
Germany - VGR (eliminated)
Italy - Victor Galis
Poland - Defiant
Russia - The Orange_1
Spain - Snowfire
Turkey - orange
Ukraine - RUFFHAUS8

	14-06-2002 01:48									#9
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There is one reason why those games are in the tank and he is called LARRY LARRY

	14-06-2002 06:13									#10
	Got spare money?

No, the real reason is me directing and acting in a play. And my lack of knowledge over the status of half the players, I know the roster, but people keep crawling out of the woodwork appearing and disappearing.

	14-06-2002 09:24									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'd be up for both options. I will say that I don't know how effective the anon option would be- I know some posters writing styles, and so it might be kind of predictable if too many vets play. It's fun to try, though.

	14-06-2002 09:34									#12
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I'd like to be in both of the options. One modifications though, if we play the regular game, could we have the 'fleet-in-rome' variant? I don't know if anyone has done any stats, but has a single ADC game seen Italy as the winner?

	14-06-2002 09:43									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just checking the (extremely outdated) site, in Rocky Road, Italy was in 3-way draw. There are several other games where Italy had a strong finish but somebody else soloed. This is in about ~10-14 standard games, where we might expect 1 and half victories.

So it's not that bad. I will say that I myself don't like Fleet Rome that much for Italy: I agree it does make Italy more powerful, but they also become more predictable and they lose some super-powerful surprise openings. Myself, I'd rather have the unpredictability.

	14-06-2002 13:47									#14
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I'd be quite up for another game of genuine gunboat dip. The Silent/Shift game (Silent Dip IV, I think) that Boshko ran was the most interesting game I've played, I think. I think running that again would be fantastic. Okay, the fact that I won it probably shades my memories somewhat, but oh well...

	14-06-2002 17:22									#15
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Ok, to sum up so far:

1) There is demand for new games, although some concern about running too many at the same time. I share the last concern, and certainly won't start any before NSN is finished. The question of Dip 50 and Frontier dip are more complicated - any more opinions on that? Waiting until they're finished will be like waiting for England to win the World Cup (ie. never), so should I start while they continue. Discuss...

2) There seems to be interest in both my suggestions. First, the anonymous game, I have interest from the following players:

El Awrence
November Adam
Siro
Snowfire
CyberGnu

Then, the realtime one:

El Awrence
Siro
Snowfire
CyberGnu

Hopefully a few others on Defiant's list (inc him and Ruff!!) would also join so it may be possible to run both. Of course, I'm happy to run a normal game instead, it's up to you guys.

Any more thoughts?

	15-06-2002 00:46									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

Orange1,
As for dip 50, I can see a clear cut draw for England, CSA, Mexico and China.
Frontier is a little more complicated, may have to play that one out a ways, too many powers still active.

In your scenarios, I like #1 the best(a little Bounced, eh?), but I would only test it on a Standard map first, before we get going on larger maps. Your second idea is nice but you never be able to get that many people to sit down that long all at one time. Wish I could meet all you boys in a FTF game and a couple of cases of beer, it would be fun. Ah hell, we would probably end up hanging Ruffhaus in the end.

Orange1, I wonder if we could get that software from the creator of Bounced, probably want some money for it, sure would be nice.

	15-06-2002 02:48									#17
	Tired of ads?

I, for one, am reluctant to enter into any more games until the three I've already invested time into are dealt with, especially considering the track record of the two Imperials for reliability of players/GMs.

As for Deviant's idea of a four-way draw in Dip 50, that's not a game, it's a travesty. No map should have four powers winning, even one the size of Imperial. Three I could see, but not four. *sigh* Don't know why I'm bothering nitpicking it, though, seeing as how that one'll probably collapse before a clear-cut victor(s) are evident.

Besides, at this point, we MIGHT be able to field enough reliable players to do ONE Standard or Modern map and have it PLAYED as opposed to waited on for months at a stretch. If this scenario exists in the realm of possibility, then I'm interested, but if folks play for three turns and then vanish without a trace, leave me out of it. We should all have a pretty good clue of who will and will not commit now, so choose wisely. I don't like twiddling my thumbs waiting on some nimrod any more than I have to.

	15-06-2002 05:51									#18
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I pretty much agree with the Widow and I don't like having a huge map having four draw countries, but facts are facts and these games are stalling and it is a way to get them out of the way so we can restart this site, from the basics, if neccessary, starting with only 10 good players and going from there.
We have excellent GM's, Ruffhaus, Orange1 and Snowfire, I have never had a problem with them, so all we need to do is be careful in GM and Player selection, as Widow suggested.

	15-06-2002 07:55									#19
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I am not sure that we have enough for a modern game, as Apocralypse has gone though a few country changes since it started. Mayhem also died a bad death. I am however with HDS in saying that I am not interested in starting another game that won't play out.

I GM'd a Classic game that was a good experience for me and the players I think, though it may have been because of the players who entered. I would also be interested in GMing another, maybe a Middle East variant or a standard. I would want to either pick the players, or go by a standard of reliability as to what players play out games to conclusion ( win or lose ).

What does everyone think, maybe we only start games that are hand picked by the GM's ? I hate to do that though because then some guys may not get a chance to ever get in.

	15-06-2002 20:05									#20
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I agree completely with Chazzy and HDS. Those that don't ever get picked don't deserve to be anyway because their lack of commitment in the past has spoiled many games for the other players - I would have no sympathy for them.

I also completely agree that new games that just die are pointless - that's the reason I wanted to ask your opinion because we have to take some positive action to save this club or it's going under.

These games i propose will be by invitation only.

Defiant, I'm sure we could get enough people together for a night of realtime action if we stuck to the hardcore devotees. And I'm sure a strapping young lad like you could finish off that case of beer all on your own while playing

	15-06-2002 20:36									#21
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Defiant, I suppose we could have a closed game on Bounced for people from ADC - quite common apparently according to the guy that runs it. I was trying to keep it on Poly though because if we start moving, its the end I reckon. Might be ok for just one game though...

	16-06-2002 23:07									#22
	Remove this text

Id be game for something new in a weeks time when I reach Oxford. I should have reliqble access then, and no stupid French keyboards with no apostrophes.

Id also like to see a Royale game on the Heptarchy or 1600 v. 2.51 map. I wouldn't ,mind playing a standard game, but I could not do real time or anything too fast.

	18-06-2002 02:05									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Siro, you still drive me nutts, look at your first post and then your second. Although I like your picture of Netanyho(sp) sorry.

What???

Btw it's not a picture of netanyahu/

It's Barak's face on Nethanyahu's head... I know it sounds wierd... it is.

The eyes nose and mouth are Barak. The rest Nethanyahu.


And what's wrong with my posts? I'm impulsive!

	18-06-2002 02:47									#24
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I'm down for joining a new game. the anonymous standard game sounds interesting, although I don't think I can do the real time one.

If anyone is wondering where I popped out of all of a sudden, after a year and a half in the army, I finally got out of my recon troop and moved into a sham job at the G-6 help desk Now my major concern has turned to finding ways to kill time playing around on the internet.

	18-06-2002 23:02									#25
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I have faced similar problems of players disappearing in Frontier Imperial Dip. My problem right now is that some of the regular players have not sent in moves. I am still waiting on all of Europe in that game and Japan and Brazil.

	19-06-2002 00:41									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

NMR!
NMR!
NMR!

	19-06-2002 00:57									#27
	Tired of ads?

They are not due until Wednesday NMR happy boy!

	19-06-2002 01:29									#28
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I thought that they were due LAST Wednesday. Besides Some Japanese fello named Hojo told me that NMRs by your neighbors were the best way to victory....

	19-06-2002 01:36									#29
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15-06-2002 19:47
Three things

first - Moves are extended till Wednesday at 5:30 PM PDT
second - Charger is temporarily replacing MDR as Japan and Chazzy and changing to Brazil
third - Map errors
England
No F in Cel
F NE Monsoon is in E. Indian
Austria
F: Baltic is in GoBot
Otherwise the map is ok

That is SHOGUN DEFIANT OF THE HOJO, to you, my most honored conqueored enemy And,,,,,the best way to victory is a highly skilled stab to where victor is almost guaranteed, like in Hagakure.

Above shows a stamp date by Du Chateau of 6-15 and the nearest forward Wednesday is 6-19, tomorrow as I read it. You're slipping a little Ruffhaus'son.

	19-06-2002 10:30									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I would like to replace him, however I cant seem to open the map!!! I dont know what is wrong!!!