14-06-2002 05:17									#61
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's an insult in English. Poles are supposed to be incredibly stupid, according to the sterotype. That word is what we use when refering to them. Sad, when you think of all the contributions Poles have made to our country (USA).

Aha, thanks. Now my brain starts working again, I missed the "lacking" part.

I've got to try that one on my Polish friends. J/K (Just so noone misunderstands, I'm such a wuss )

	14-06-2002 05:18									#62
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Che - that's an AWFUL policy. Chris Rock shouldn't be able to joke about "Nigger" is Pauly Shore can't.

I hate when black people call each other by that word. It completely negates all that African Americans have done to break into equality in American society. If I were black, I would find it personally insulting to myself and my ancestors to hear that word no matter how it was used.

	14-06-2002 05:18									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski There are several other people who used those words as well. While not neccesarily in a racist way, just the USE of the words is bad enough isn't it?

No... there is a difference in these words coming up in a discussion of racism based on the use of such words, and the way UberKruX used them.

BIG DIFFERENCE!

	14-06-2002 05:24									#64
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i always try to put quotes around offensive terms like that, to indicate that I am not using them in that way, but simply bringing the word up as a part of the discussion. But really, there should be an auto-censor on "nigger" as well as other offensive words...

	14-06-2002 05:25									#65
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I'm not big on anyone using those words, Orange, but comedy has a way of defusing them, dampening their evil. When Eddie Murphy made his white audience shout N****R at the top of their lungs in one of his routines, it really messed with people. It stole some of the power of that word.

	14-06-2002 05:26									#66
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quote: Originally posted by orange I hate when black people call each other by that word.

It's a lesson you learn in the playground. If some jerk is trying to use some irrelevant fact about you to make you feel bad (liek your skin colour, your parentage, your first language, etc.), one of the best methods of defeating him is to embrace that characterization and make it irrelevant. Take away his ammunition. Sure, that usually means that the neanderthal is left wth using his fists because his brain can't cope, but hey, there is only so much you can do about some people.

	14-06-2002 05:27									#67
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I don't think there is a difference, any use of such a word, or a symbol such as the swastika, which was around a LONG time before Hitler, and used to have a positive meaning, should not be allowed. Hell, I don't even spell out po*p all the way in my loacation. SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND IT OFFENSIVE. Whether it is meant to be or not.

	14-06-2002 05:28									#68
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quote: Originally posted by orange Che - that's an AWFUL policy. Chris Rock shouldn't be able to joke about "Nigger" is Pauly Shore can't. I hate when black people call each other by that word. It completely negates all that African Americans have done to break into equality in American society. If I were black, I would find it personally insulting to myself and my ancestors to hear that word no matter how it was used.

Have to disagree with you mightily here, Orange.

First, Chris Rock doesn't say "Nigger," he says "Nigga," and while difference may seem subtle, it's huge.

"Niggerrrrrr" is the white racist epithet used to denegrate blacks.

"Nigga" is the term blacks have developed from "Nigger" in order to rob the power from the word and make it less hurtful.

I will use the analogy I have used before, "fag." It's a terrible word to hear coming out of the mouths of someone who isn't gay. Why? Well, when a gay person says the word, I know where he's coming from. I realize right away it wasn't said out of hatred for homosexuals or to denegrate someone for being homosexual. Gays now use the word like blacks use "nigga," as a mark of pride in the face of past denegration.

But if I hear someone I know who isn't gay use the word, I know they aren't using it the same way a gay person is. The immediate reaction is going to be that the person is using it as a denegration of homosexuals. Since I can't know the intent of a straight person using it, I don't think they should use it if they don't want to offend gay people.

The same is true for "nigger." A black person knows where it is coming from when a black person says it. But history has shown when a white person says it, it's coming from a totally different place.

	14-06-2002 05:32									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Ming No... there is a difference in these words coming up in a discussion of racism based on the use of such words, and the way UberKruX used them. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Is there?

EXAMPLE: You and I are sitting in a coffee shop talking about racism. One of us says that the word ni**er is a racist term.

A black man walking by hears the word ni**er. Do you think he cares HOW THAT WORD WAS USED?

No, he doesn't. And if you think differently you have blinders on.

I say do away with it's use totally.

	14-06-2002 05:35									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski A black man walking by hears the word ni**er. Do you think he cares HOW THAT WORD WAS USED?

Next time... use an example that is appropriate.

If you can't see the difference... you are the one with blinders on.

	14-06-2002 05:37									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I say do away with it's use totally.

I think this statement shows how wrong you are. You can't do away with a word. All you can do is change its meaning.

	14-06-2002 05:39									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda I think this statement shows how wrong you are. You can't do away with a word. All you can do is change its meaning.

Oh, and a bunch of white males discussing it on a forum is going to cahnge it's meaning?

	14-06-2002 05:40									#73
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No, but a bunch of black people using it might.

	14-06-2002 05:41									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Next time... use an example that is appropriate. If you can't see the difference... you are the one with blinders on.

Oh, I see the difference, we are typing here, so he would have to actually read the contents of each post. And should know the difference.


But that doesn't make it right to use it here.

	14-06-2002 05:42									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda No, but a bunch of black people using it might.

True, when a bunch of black people show up on this forum, let me know. For now I will still refuse to use it.

	14-06-2002 08:39									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I will use the analogy I have used before, "fag." It's a terrible word to hear coming out of the mouths of someone who isn't gay. Why? Well, when a gay person says the word, I know where he's coming from. I realize right away it wasn't said out of hatred for homosexuals or to denegrate someone for being homosexual. Gays now use the word like blacks use "nigga," as a mark of pride in the face of past denegration. But if I hear someone I know who isn't gay use the word, I know they aren't using it the same way a gay person is. The immediate reaction is going to be that the person is using it as a denegration of homosexuals. Since I can't know the intent of a straight person using it, I don't think they should use it if they don't want to offend gay people. The same is true for "nigger." A black person knows where it is coming from when a black person says it. But history has shown when a white person says it, it's coming from a totally different place.

Will there be any issues that we do not agree on, Boris??

	14-06-2002 09:34									#77
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fine then. If a non-white person ever says "cracker", even if talking about a lightly salted wafer, I will not only take offense, but complain to the proper authorities. However, I will call everyone I see "cracka" as a term of endearment.

	14-06-2002 11:16									#78
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Ok I am not a racist's and yes Orange the guy seem to be talking chit. A person is a person to me no matter what color or race or religon or sexual orientation or mind set until they prove to me they are not...

One question to Boris and Mr.Fun when a black person says "whitie" or when a white person says "white power" what is your impression then?

	14-06-2002 13:43									#79
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I once had a discussion with a black guy who claimed that it was not racist to make steriotypical remarks about white men because they are the originators of the 'dominant' western culture and still control the show. He claimed it was only racist to make anti-black comments because the blacks were oppressed.

I told him that I thought this was bollocks, and he got very upset about it. What do you think?

	14-06-2002 15:44									#80
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Considering the term "Nigger" comes from the latin word for black .. Niger .. how on earth can this relate to an individual, without offending the masses .It should not be used ..full stop.

As for African's being racist, you did right to point out his error .. all races, have racist individuals.. in my opinion, racists are simply insecure.

Calling a Pakistani a towel head simply shows utter ignorance, considering Sikhs wear turbans, and Arabs .. the vast majority of Pakistani's do not wear turbans.

My Indian friends find it so irritating that some people are so dense that they assume anybody who is S.Asian is Pakistani .. considering there are 1bn Indians, compared to only 250million Pakistani's .. Surely we should assume they are Indian first ?? Thats like saying all Caucasions are from England.

ignorance, insecurity and fear of change .. thats what racism is, and all peoples are vunrable to them.

	14-06-2002 21:00									#81
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i think he was using 'towel heads' and 'sand ni**ers' as a term for all of the middle east, not just pakistanis.

	14-06-2002 21:10									#82
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quote: Originally posted by orange fine then. If a non-white person ever says "cracker", even if talking about a lightly salted wafer, I will not only take offense, but complain to the proper authorities. However, I will call everyone I see "cracka" as a term of endearment.

I have frequently referred to myself as Honkey McCracker, Mayor of Whitey Town.

"Nigger" does not have any other alternative use other than the racial slur, so the cracker analogy is flawed. However, a black using cracker as a racist epithet is indeed wrong.

And if you want to call me cracka, I don't mind.
Whitey.

quote: One question to Boris and Mr.Fun when a black person says "whitie" or when a white person says "white power" what is your impression then?

It's racism. A black person referring to a white person as "whitie" is just as unacceptable as a white person referring to a black person as "nigger." I will, however, once again refer to orange as whitey.

"White power" has always been used as a euphemism for white supremacy, so I can't say I find that term acceptable either. But I don't see black people going around saying "Nigger power." If they did, I can only imagine it would be a joke.

	14-06-2002 21:47									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It's racism. A black person referring to a white person as "whitie" is just as unacceptable as a white person referring to a black person as "nigger." I will, however, once again refer to orange as whitey.

BAN HIM!!!!!

	14-06-2002 22:11									#84
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How can you devote so much brainpower *cough* to semantics. The real issue never gets mentioned.

	15-06-2002 00:31									#85
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i'm just saying that it's ridiculous that you can be offended by a word spoken by one person and accepting of it when spoken by another. It makes no sense at all.

	15-06-2002 00:36									#86
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Yes it does. To descend into legalese, it's the actus reus without the mens rea. Both are required to cause the offence.

	15-06-2002 07:22									#87
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not at all, Bugs...

if I'm white and I go up to a black friend and say "hey my nigga" and the person gets offended, there is no mens rea, as I had no intent to cause harm nor did I intend a specific action to occur...in fact, there's no actus reus becuase I don't think the act of saying 'nigga' can be classified as a wrong, and if there is, than it would also apply if it were a black person saying it to another black person.

Edit: wait a minute...are you agreeing with me?

	15-06-2002 07:39									#88
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Orange:

A black person could not know your intent, and based upon past history, they would be perfectly justified in assuming your intention was malicious.

If called me a faggot, I can guarantee you a similar reaction.

Didn't you read what I posted earlier?

	15-06-2002 07:56									#89
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yes, I did, and I don't agree with an iota of it.

just because people I may or may not be distantly related to did harm to people he may or may not be distantly related to does not make me any more of a threat than a 'fellow black' who says the same thing.

Ideally, no one would use the word at all, and in fact, I don't think anyone should since it's so offensive, but i HATE the double standard that a black person can say it as a term of affection and a white person can't, even if they say it with the same meaning.

I don't think a gay person should call you 'faggot' either...if you find it offensive for me to call you that, you should find it offensive for anyone to call you that...assuming the same tone and all...obviously there's a difference between "hey my nigga how are you?" and "STUPID NIG***"...

	15-06-2002 08:05									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer May the universe bless you for your forgiveness, Orange, but I really think you're being too kind. I really don't think there is any reasonable situation where it is acceptable to call any black person a "jungle bunny" or "nigger" or "porch monkey". Likewise, there isn't an acceptable situation to call any Arab a "towelhead" or a "sand nigger". If you don't think that using those terms are racist, but BET or AA are, well... I really don't know what to say to you.

is there ever a time when its appropriate to call a white person "cracker" or a jew an "ape or pig"?? seems to me that everyone is desensetised to "cracker" in the US and as according to recent footage on news media most arab kids are brought up believing jews are "apes and pigs."

why don't you get on their case and teach them not to be racist? just don't forget to breath in a little baggy, or you'll hyperventelate.