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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:20
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a few friends and I were hanging out, as our one friend is going back to college for the summer. Two guys two girls...so we're sitting around talking about what we want to do when we get out of school...
...the one girl says she's heading straight to NYC because she loves it there, and the one guy (who I don't know very well...friend of a friend) says...
"Are you serious? Don't go to New York City! The ****ing towel heads are going to get you"
I was taken back by this, but before I could say anything the girl goes "woah, don't say that" and he says "oops, sorry, right, 'sand ni**ers', not towel heads" at which I jumped in and a rather heated debate occured...
"I'm not racist, it's just, well that's what they're called aren't they?"
"I guarantee you if you approach a Pakistani person and ask if they enjoy being referred to as "towel head" or "Sand Ni**er, chances are...now I won't speak for all Pakistanis...but I'm betting at least 99 out of 100 are going to respond 'no, i don't enjoy being called that"
He kept saying "no, I'm not racist, it's just that every single terrorist attack on the United States has been by a middle eastern guy"
at which point I asked him to examine what he just said...
"well, every major terrorist attack anyway"
"Timothy McVeigh"
"well he doesn't count, he was just mentally ill"
"just becuase a few bad seeds corrupt a religion doesn't make everyone from the middle east a terrorist"
"I'm not a racist! I give everyone an equal chance, but you have to admit that all these arabs are going to nuke us one of these days, and it'll probably be New York City"
Well, the conversation went on...
he eventually said something along the lines of "well, don't blame me for talking like this, it's how my parents are...it's just the environment I was brought up in"
"but you know better, right?"
"yes, I do. My best friend is black for heaven's sake! I'm not racist!"
Deep down, I really don't think he is racist, just a big mouth and not enough sense to examine the meaning of what he's saying before he says it...
but I thought it was a shame anyhow, that people talk like that and act like it's 'normal' to call someone from the middle east by those names.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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Wherein lies said "interesting" part in this interesting conversation you had last night?
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
1. Soldiers in WW2 killed in defeating the Nazis, are they murderers? |
I can't think of anyone (rational) who considers killing enemy soldiers in combat to be murder. It isn't.
quote:
2. If a man steals a loaf a bread to feed his family is he a thief. |
Yes. That doesn't mean he's evil, just a thief, as he has committed theft.
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3. If your family gets murdered by terrorists and you utter a racist statement in anger, are you a racist? |
Perhaps or perhaps not, but the situation orange described is not even similar. This guy had no family killed and it is months later. Plenty of time to let such "errant" feelings cool down.
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4. It was a joke, and I apologize, get over it. |
I've seen no apology accept this lame attempt above (coupled with a dismissive comment). How about next time, I joke about a horrible way someone you cared about died, and then casually tell you to get over it?
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Guynemer
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Boris is right, Orange. Your friend is a racist, no matter how much he professes the contrary.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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Sava, I do not care if a person is a victim of a terrorist attack -- if they start attributing terrorist ideology to an entire ethnic or religious group, then that person is being bigoted.
I agree in theory, but do remember that if you're a member of the religious group "orthodox Muslims", you're pretty likely to support jihad in some way or another.
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Guynemer
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Wonderful, Sava. That relates to this situation how, exactly?
The jackoff is a racist, period. Saying the "towelheads" or the "sand niggers" will get you is unbelievably patently racist, and it doesn't bode well for your character that you can't recognize it as such. Indeed, it's been a rather bad day for your alleged character.
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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:20
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wow, well we definitely need to clear some things up...
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Orange, what does it take for you to consider someone racist? This guys saying racist stuff, is spouting racist beliefs, trying to get someone to act on his racist beliefs. Is anyone racist to you? |
He is saying racist stuff. What I'm saying is, I believe him in the fact that he doesn't judge people on their race...I don't believe that he thinks that all Arabs/Muslims are evil, and I don't think he feels that the white race is the greatest race. Infact, he even made a comment along the lines of "I know that whites are the worst race as far as prejudice about other races, and I think it's wrong, so I don't judge people on that"
I think he was just making a broad comment based on limited facts without clearly thinking it out, nor did he realize the severity of the names he was using to describe a group of people. Ignorance moreso than racism.
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Speak for all of them... if you said that to a Pakistani, chances are they'd never speak to you again. |
I added that part in for comic relief, it worked, everyone laughed 
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BET and African-American Student Groups are racist, but a guy who says "sandn*gger" isn't? |
Ignorance is different than racism. Like I said, I don't feel that he specifically targets groups of people as being deviant, nor does he judge people on their race. What I was saying about Black Student Unions and BET as being racist is that they segregate. I don't necessarily think that they feel black culture is the best culture...nor do I feel that those who are involved in these groups are racist...i'm talking about those things as a concept.
If you'll all stop and realize something, I was QUITE vocal about my feelings that what he said was wrong. I called him on it on the spot, and made sure he understood that what he was saying was unacceptable and ignorant. I think he got the message, partially from the tone of my voice, and partially from the peer pressure of 2 other people backing me up.
Most importantly: this person is not my 'friend'. I barely know him. We've hung out twice. He is a friend of a friend.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Perhaps you should read the other thread. Sometimes, in making jokes, people get offended. It was not my intent to offend, and I'm sorry that you had a friend that died. I made a mistake, I apologized, and if you can't accept it, then too bad. People make mistakes. I try to respect other people and their beliefs, every once in a while I put my foot in my mouth. Sh!t happens... |
Yes, you're so sorry:
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Careful Ron... I made a crack about AiDS and got reamed....
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Quite remorseful.
Look, I have no problem accepting apologies for mistakes, if they're genuine. But you've shown you weren't sincere in the apology and think you've been wronged for people pointing out what a horrible thing you said:
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An ill-timed joke can offend an awful lot of
people...
Yup... and its a shame too. Life is too short to hate someone for such a stupid reason. Oh well, if they're going to hate me for that, then they aren't worth liking anyways.
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No one's hating you for making a joke. But what rankles me even more than the joke is the callous dismissal of people's feelings over it. That just shows you're not the least bit sincere in being sorry for what you said, only sorry that people got mad over it. That's not an apology, that's just a further insult.
I did not think one bad thing about you prior to this, but I have to say that it has really lowered my opinion of you to Boddingtonesque levels.
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14-06-2002 00:07
). They just need a jolt to think about what they are saying seriously, to be honest with you that kind of talk is more to be pitied. Just hope he starts to think about it seriously. I have had to give a kick to someone who was behaving like that before (and this is an Oxford undergraduate who you would really expect to know better).
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