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Blisterz is offline Blisterz
Chieftain

Nov 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 17:56
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Teaching dangerous lies to teens. Full PM-box? Change here!

(The following article has been quoted from the URL http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryn...ion/3350446.htm)

Keeping teens ignorant (and pregnant)
By Richard Cohen

BEFORE I tell you what Rep. Lois Capps, D-Calif., did, I want to tell you something about her. She is the daughter of a Lutheran minister. She has a degree in religion, and her late husband graduated from divinity school. She was head nurse at Yale-New Haven Hospital and director of the Santa Barbara school system's teenage pregnancy and parenting program. Last month, she offered an amendment to the government's sexual abstinence program, asking only that it be medically and scientifically accurate. She lost, 31-19.
Soon after, the measure providing more money for President Bush's cherished abstinence-only program sailed out of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, heading to the floor where it will surely pass. The provision to keep America's teenagers as ignorant as possible about sex -- even, as Capps knows, to teach them what is false -- is embedded in a whale of a bill that contains so much for so many that, should it fail, it could only mean that our cherished political system has collapsed and reason has triumphed.

The abstinence-only provision is a measure so illogical that just to contemplate it raises the sound fear that you will lose your mind. It offers the states $50 million a year to teach abstinence as the only way to deal with sex. That's it. Nothing about sex education. Nothing about how to avoid pregnancy, venereal disease or HIV-AIDS. Condoms may be mentioned, but only their failure rates. The fact that they most often are effective must not be mentioned. In effect, teachers must lie.

Now consider the American teenager. More than half aged 15-19 have had sex. For 18-year-olds, the figure is 70 percent. More than 750,000 teenagers a year become pregnant. Compared with teenagers in, say, sexually rambunctious Sweden or France, those in America are a sorry lot. They have the highest rate of adolescent childbearing (22 percent for the United States; 4 percent for Sweden) and the highest abortion rate. The figures speak for themselves: When it comes to sex, our kids don't know what they are doing.

The same can be said for our political leaders. It's not, mind you, that there is anything wrong with abstinence, which is, as our tautology-addicted president tells us, 100 percent effective. Rather, it's that abstinence only works when it works. When it doesn't -- when the well-intentioned kid falls off the wagon -- he or she ought to know what to do. The consequences can be lethal -- HIV-AIDS, for instance.

The abstinence-only program did not, as you may think, spring from the brow of George W. Bush. It has been around since 1996, when some legislators with dirty minds slipped it into the welfare reform bill. But both in concept and as legislation it has been embraced by Bush, who mentions it frequently and with enthusiasm. ``It works every time,'' he said recently. So does death.

In a sense, abstinence-only is the intellectual heart of Bushism. It is based solely on faith, on conviction -- on what ought to be and not on what is. The program persists despite no evidence that it works and in the face of some evidence that it does not. It is a muddled aspiration, coupled with such sanctimonious nonsense about chastity until marriage (average marriage age: 27 for men, 26 for women) that it simply cannot be taken seriously.

But even if abstinence was the way to go, what could be wrong with teaching sex education as well -- just in case? Where else, in what other area, do we insist on ignorance and maintain that knowledge is wrong? This is not our way. This is a totalitarian concept. It amounts, truly, to abuse of power.

The power and authority of the teacher rests on his or her greater knowledge. What do you call it, then, when information that could be necessary for a full and happy life is withheld? What do you call it when through avoidable ignorance and its handmaiden, shame, a teenager gets pregnant, has an abortion or has a child? What can you call it when, for lack of knowledge, a child gets AIDS and dies? Is this what George Bush wants? I hope not. But this is what he is going to get.

The United States is far and away the most religiously observant of all Western nations. Yet it has teenage pregnancy rates that also lead the Western world. Our kids are not immoral or irreligious. They are too often woefully ignorant -- ashamed of their sexuality, hiding it and its consequences from everyone, not even knowing that a condom can save their lives. Lois Capps -- mother and nurse -- asked, in essence, only for the government to tell kids the truth.

It abstained.

Drefsab is offline Drefsab
Warlord
Indiana
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:02 Visit Drefsab's homepage!
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Sex is natural, sex is fun...

I swear as a good American that my kids will know what sex is and how to protect themselves and be safe. I don't need some idiot teacher in some backwater school district to do it for me.

Oh, and when I have kids, and their sexual organs mature, I'm locking them in the closet...

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:14 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Teenagers in America know full well that sex without protection can cause a pregnancy or enable a disease to be transferred. Does this guy really think that teenagers do not know that?

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:16 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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Teenagers should be taught proper methods of contraception and the social consequences of sex (including between same sex partners) so they can fully make a fully informed choice.

The only-abstinance thing is really stupid, it is but one of many options.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:21
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quote:
(including between same sex partners)


recruiting , heh ?

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:23 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalgetti


requiting , heh ?





Many people are homophobic through ignorance and being gay in school can be especially difficult. If this ignorance is destroyed, people can be more tolerant.

How does Bush expect gay people to ever have sex? It's not like marraige is an option.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:31
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how does bush expect people to have sex at all? Is he planning to put the national geographic as X-rated ?

Lincoln is right , teens know that sex exist by sibling stories . but That's a broken phone . Often kids know things that are lies, and told by elder brothers that make fun of their small siblings, or just kids coming up with stuff. It would really be good if teens knew what sex is. For example , in Sex Ed here , were were told about the private parts, the immense risks of unprotected sex, how to put on condoms, and the importance of relationships. ( Thus undermining the boys' one-night-stand tactique )

Stefu is offline Stefu
Emperor
CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Jan 1970
time: 07:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 18:34 Visit Stefu's homepage!
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quote:
How does Bush expect gay people to ever have sex?


I don't think that Bush thinks about gay people having sex on a daily basis.

Well, at least *male* gay people.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Teenagers in America know full well that sex without protection can cause a pregnancy or enable a disease to be transferred. Does this guy really think that teenagers do not know that?


I'm not arguing one way or another on this matter, but heres a little food for thought.

20% of the patients at the county STD clinic that I collaborate with are between 16-18. Whether they know about safe-sex practices or not, they dont tend to use them.

Tiamat is offline Tiamat
Apolyton Legend
.....and George's daughter
Mar 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 21:33
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And whats worse is that many of the teenagers once they get an STD don't take any precaution after they've contracted it. Which only serves to spread it around more.

There was a situation like that with one of my daughters friends. He had gotten infected by someone who knew she was contagious but just didn't care. She figured if she had it so should everyone else. Not to say that this is indicative of all teenagers but alot do take this attitude.

blackice is offline blackice
Emperor
Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 22:09 Visit blackice's homepage!
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McMaster university in Hamilton just release a report on this. They studied several different reports from N.America. They concluded all of the education approches to sex education have failed. Not one method worked what so ever. I know people get tired of me saying this but one area of teen pregnacy that is down is when there is a natural father in the house and or an equal participant in the children's lives. Studies show accross the map fatherless families are 70% more likely to have children involved in early pregnacy. It is possible that in fact a change in the equal parenting situation can improve this situation.

H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 22:22
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well if your catholic abstinnence is the only way to prevent pregnancy

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 22:30
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H Tower, you treat Catholics like they have set beliefs on issues.

I used three methods of protect and that didn't do any good.

H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 23:27
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i thought other forms of preventing pregnancy were not liked by the church.

so what is the catholic churches stance on contraceptions?

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:20
  Old Post 15-06-2002 23:32
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There is no official stance. They are generally considered wrong. Another widely accepted theory is that as long as you practice faith, hope, and love sex is fine.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 00:17 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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This shows the extent of Bush's intelligence when it comes to sexuality.

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:20 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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Well who does Bush have to screw? Have you seen his wife?

Methinks he really wants to be promoting abstinence AFTER marraige

Clear Skies is offline Clear Skies
Prince
looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Jul 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:21 Visit Clear Skies's homepage!
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Personally I feel sorry for his wife...

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by H Tower

so what is the catholic churches stance on contraceptions?


Generally not in favor of. But the abistence thing doesnt work.....I can vouch for that personally

All the bible talk in the world cant prevent you from screwing a chick when your a teenager. And I lost my virginity when I was 15.

However, as a catholic. I use birthcontrol. Honestly, I am not ready to have kids. Its a personal choice.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:32 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Hormones can be stronger than faith.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:35
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no Society is. Abistinence may work for the amish. But not for todays world. Its too sexually liberal. A boy goes to middle school and here his friends are talking about how much chicks they've slammed....etc. Normal boy stuff today, that was soooooo taboo 50 years ago.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:42
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Why does anyone here want the state to teach anything to your kids about sex? Don't you want to be the one who does that?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:45 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Because far too many parents abdicate their responsibility, and the state has an interest in making sure that teens are aware of how sex works and the risks involved in having sex. One less kid born to a teen mother is possibly one less kid on welfare as well as a woman who might be able to go to colloege and increase the state's human capital.

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Why does anyone here want the state to teach anything to your kids about sex? Don't you want to be the one who does that?


My mother would never have told me anything about sex (let alone gay sex), she vigoursly campaigned against my school's sex education.

She believes ignorance is the best form of contraception. I'm glad for sex education and I'm sure many people have parents who are the same way.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:47 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
no Society is. Abistinence may work for the amish. But not for todays world. Its too sexually liberal. A boy goes to middle school and here his friends are talking about how much chicks they've slammed....etc. Normal boy stuff today, that was soooooo taboo 50 years ago.


There was quite a bit of pre-marital sex going on back then. Then children were either married off as teens or "sent to live with an aunt" (home for unwed mothers). In colonial times in the US, 1/3rd of all children were born out of wedlock. Sex before marriage is an American tradition.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 01:51
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I didn't learn anything from the detailed sex education I've had in the past. I already knew it from watching TV.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 02:09
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Who decides what gets taught and what doesn't. Who decides when it's introduced? Should concerned parents(those that actualy raise their child) be able to have a say in what is taught? If not, why not? And why is it that a child can come from school with a pocket full of condoms, but can't read properly?

Just a few questions to ask before you throw a few million dollars and Mrs. Smith into a room full of boys and girls.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 02:11
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The whole debate is pointless anyway. There is already some sex education in the schools anyway.

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 02:12 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Who decides what gets taught and what doesn't. Who decides when it's introduced? Should concerned parents(those that actualy raise their child) be able to have a say in what is taught? If not, why not? And why is it that a child can come from school with a pocket full of condoms, but can't read properly?

Just a few questions to ask before you throw a few million dollars and Mrs. Smith into a room full of boys and girls.


Because parents don't always do what is in the best interests of their child. I have to sneak out of the house to go on dates.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
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Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:20
  Old Post 16-06-2002 02:16
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red_jon, I sneak out of the house too. It hasn't affected my sexual education though.

 
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