18-06-2002 20:47									#61
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And Sloww wonders why I hate pick up games...

10 minutes for 20 units?
Do you hand write orders and dispatch them?

	18-06-2002 21:09									#62
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quote: Originally posted by deity I'm pausing and doing a tiny bit of thinking on my turns under these extraordinary circumstances of fighting three civs. But otherwise all I'm doing is moving units.

MOST of us do our thinking during other's turns. Or at least thinking about possible troop deployements based on the different possiblilities that we expect when our turns start. Nothing says you can't start thinking until the clock starts clicking down on your turn.

This is the perfect example of why turns are slow. (you aren't the only person that does this but it is the example at hand) People don't think until it's their turn. Granted when you get surprised, it acceptable to think through the new options. But a player of your caliber shouldn't be that surprised, that often.


RAH
Moving that few units shouldn't require much though or time.

	18-06-2002 23:40									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 10 minutes for 20 units? Do you hand write orders and dispatch them?

Well you got to realize at least 3/4 of those are fortified in cities..
I am the only player whose got units that can even attack his cities, and i can only get through him over a rather long piece of water. Since he has maggallans all he has got to do is move subs forward and there is something like only 3 squares i can land on. He takes the word slow to a whole new level.

	19-06-2002 00:39									#64
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In other words, he's making a lame excuse for slow play.

Even in war it shouldn't take that long to make decisions.

	19-06-2002 07:56									#65
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quote: Originally posted by rah MOST of us do our thinking during other's turns. Or at least thinking about possible troop deployements based on the different possiblilities that we expect when our turns start. Nothing says you can't start thinking until the clock starts clicking down on your turn. This is the perfect example of why turns are slow. (you aren't the only person that does this but it is the example at hand) People don't think until it's their turn. Granted when you get surprised, it acceptable to think through the new options. But a player of your caliber shouldn't be that surprised, that often. RAH Moving that few units shouldn't require much though or time.

I think you are mis-interpretting what I'm saying. I just said I paused a moment - the reason being in this game that Dang who is attacking moves right before me. I've thought thru other moves tho. You are exagerating what I said to the extreme. Of course I think it out during others turns. And yes, I was surprised very much when Dang and then Raz attacked me.

Your exagerated response along with Markus renowned extreme exagerations is not encouraging people to be honest here.

	19-06-2002 08:04									#66
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quote: Originally posted by markusf Well you got to realize at least 3/4 of those are fortified in cities.. I am the only player whose got units that can even attack his cities, and i can only get through him over a rather long piece of water. Since he has maggallans all he has got to do is move subs forward and there is something like only 3 squares i can land on. He takes the word slow to a whole new level.

This is plain wrong - as i said before I'm unfortifying and moving them depending on the direction of the anticipated attack. All stuff I've thought througfh on others turns... btw

You said in an earlier post that you were only a short distance from me... now it seems such a long way a way....

The point is my strat is winning so far under very difficult circumstances.

You make lots of strategic assumptions that are just plain wrong

---

I'm happy to back down on my claims if someone gets a program to time ALL players turns during the course of an ENTIRE game and see how it averages out, regardless of connections etc.

	19-06-2002 08:39									#67
	Increase Your PM Length

I didn't once say i was close to you. The only one who is exagerating is YOU. You even posted your turns took at least 10 minutes, but in fact it was closer to 20 minutes. You think we play for 3 hours and only do 3 turns because your such a fast player and everyone else is slow? Face it you have absolutely no excuse for your EXTREME slow play. I posted your units and i posted the amount of time it took you to move.! You can't lie your way out of this one.

	19-06-2002 08:41									#68
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quote: Originally posted by deity I'm happy to back down on my claims if someone gets a program to time ALL players turns during the course of an ENTIRE game and see how it averages out, regardless of connections etc.

We start with a 8 minute/turn time limit next time.

	19-06-2002 11:33									#69
	We have a new contender for slowest player Enter the AD-FREE zone

From Consul Deitus Dudius (50 B.C.): i must have slept thrru part wheere u pick research - now i am researching banking and I dont rremeber picking that LOL

	19-06-2002 17:43									#70
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quote: Originally posted by deity I think you are mis-interpretting what I'm saying. I just said I paused a moment - the reason being in this game that Dang who is attacking moves right before me. I've thought thru other moves tho. You are exagerating what I said to the extreme. Of course I think it out during others turns. And yes, I was surprised very much when Dang and then Raz attacked me. Your exagerated response along with Markus renowned extreme exagerations is not encouraging people to be honest here.

Yes, I may have exagerated what you said. I often do when I'm trying to make a point. I did say that it was about slow people in general. I too will take an extra minute or two when I'm attacked on surprise by the person that moves before me, but those occurances are very rare. But I will stand behind my comments. When people only have a dozen or less units to move, it shouldn't take very long.

Yes I would love to see a program that times every persons turn over the course of a game. But I don't think anybody would be surprised by the results. After playing a lot of people over the years (and you're not included in that group) I know who's fast and who's slow.

RAH

	19-06-2002 18:16									#71
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yes I would love to see a program that times every persons turn over the course of a game.

Oh how about a timer which you can enforce to speed up certain players

	19-06-2002 18:21									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Oh how about a timer which you can enforce to speed up certain players

I have never used the timer when hosting. Sometimes emergencies happen. (or that backstabbing time to take out 10 cities in one turn. A player should never be penalized for doing that ) If a player is routinely slow, we just try to avoid playing with them. (unless we're desperate).

But sometimes you lose sense of time in a game due to beer, boredom, or whatever and having time statistics would really help with trolling in the mp forum.

RAH

	19-06-2002 18:48									#73
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jeeze..my turns never take longer than 1 min...and only if i have tooons of caravans....

i routinely take between 8-20 seconds to move in the first 2k years.....

only markus rivals my speed....

so i still dont' know what you guyz are dioing

	20-06-2002 04:44									#74
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quote: Originally posted by markusf We start with a 8 minute/turn time limit next time.

I said average over the game

I asked Dang who said my turns were about 10 mins as previously posted. You say you timed it but no one has verified it, and I don't believe it, and you can't use the time of each turns save because of the lags. I do not agree to timer.

You've been a stickler for not changing rules in this game, even if you're out-voted, so I'm not changing anything either.

We play it out as it is.

	20-06-2002 06:10									#75
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

personally I like timers a lot - they reward quick decisive players. 5 minutes should be enough for a turn in an advanced game.

	20-06-2002 06:12									#76
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hehe...why would 20 units take 30 min anyways....one and a half mins for a unit??????

	20-06-2002 09:05									#78
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quote: Originally posted by markusf So let me see your way of doing math 56 - 30 = 62 ? You have less then 30 units btw.

This is the unit count when opening the latest 1764AD save in the middle of my turn (sent to Markus).

I checked the units in Defence Minister as well...

My math says I doubled my units count in a few turns and only lost a few. Markus lost many units and his unit count is roughly the same. The point is that unlike the previous session where Winzity was boasting about my units loseses I'm now making the point that the tide has turned

pic not posting...

I got 32 units now.
Markus 62 - not 92

	20-06-2002 09:29									#79
	Sorry Deity, I just had to post this icq ROTFLMAO! Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: there was a really interesting quote here

	20-06-2002 10:16									#80
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stratking is his DL!

	20-06-2002 12:41									#81
	You were saying Markus? :) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by markusf I didn't once say i was close to you. The only one who is exagerating is YOU. edit...

Now, from the other thread...

---
quote/s:
Originally posted by rah

"Yep, if you can get troops there fast, It doesn't look good for him.

Just another Diplo game that ends as WW.

RAH
Yes, yes, I know diplo games are DIFFERENT."

Reply by Markus (when he felt confident of victory - I had always had Magellans)

"See the destroyer in the first picture? Thats 5 squares over from dietygodfather.and 2 squares from land.

Diety started the war i am just ending it.

Did i mention i have battleships, and deity doesn't even have destroyers? I can escort whatever i want over to his landmass.

hes got 14 cities and 15 units, half of those 15 units are naval units ahahaha. (transports and subs)

You have to look pretty hard to see a flag flying, Deitycity is his capitol. Me and winzity are going to raze his civ to the ground, basically i empty his cities and winzity will take them. he needs dieties tech not me

And winzity does have another landmass with a lot of cities on it so he is far from dead.

Deityland = new spain"

---
yeah yeah Markus...

ROTFLMAO!

	20-06-2002 13:39									#82
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I don't even know why i bother replying to you anymore. we where at game turn 207 something, we where averaging about 25 turns a session, I didn't expect that we would only finish 4 damn turns last session.

Now it turns out i did time every turn sort of. I saved near the begining and the end of your turn and by looking at the timestamps on the saves i can tell how long it took you to move. On the turn in 1758 you took at LEAST 27 minutes for 13 cities and 20 units, and i know for sure i didn't save near the start of your turn. I even remember watching a whole tv show during that turn.

1756 -- 22 minutes
1758 -- 27 minutes
1760 -- dunno cuz we crashed and reloaded here.
1762 -- 24 minutes
1764 -- 18 minutes so far and its still your turn.

Now if we add it all up, and divide by playing time, its not hard to see that you have the fewest units, the fewest cities and yet you managed to take up at least 80% of the playing time. There is no concivable excuse you can come up with that can explain why you need so much time.

Last edited by markusf on 20-06-2002 at 13:50

	20-06-2002 14:26									#83
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hey Horse did Deity really say that?

I never thought I would see an Aussie with tickets on himself at apolyton .

	20-06-2002 16:42									#84
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quote: Originally posted by markusf I don't even know why i bother replying to you anymore...... edit

Same.

I don't understand any of that and it's a waste of time even if it's right. I'm sure no one else is reading this crap anyway.

Either you and others want to play me or not; so just let it go. I'm not changing. I can't, even if there were a problem...

And Hydey, there is no way I would have posted that sort of stuff AH just quoted from a PRIVATE ICQ. It was verey egatistical and I wish I hadn't said it, even to someone I trusted as a friend I've met in real life.

	20-06-2002 17:23									#85
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quote: Originally posted by deity I'm sure no one else is reading this crap anyway.

No I have to correct you there Deity - I think a lot of us are following this quite closely

*runs*

	20-06-2002 17:54									#86
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by deity Either you and others want to play me or not; so just let it go. I'm not changing. I can't, even if there were a problem...

Most people would be willing to make an effort.


RAH

	20-06-2002 17:59									#87
	Horse better run Increase the size of your Attachments

You can edit that post all you like but we all saw how you posted a private conversation in public.

	20-06-2002 18:52									#88
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Quit bashing Deity......this thread wasn't designed to bash him specifically...it was a simple thread about slow play/connectinos/people falling asleap etc....

I think Apolyton knows who the slow players are.....and if you truly want to play with a great player (Deity) then you must accept the conditions that come with playing him...

things like , old age, parrots, alzheimers etc.....

i have a good parody for all this.... *clears throat to do his best Jim Gray impersonation* ah hem....

Gray: Pete, why dont you come clean and just admit to gambling on baseball and more specifically betting on the Reds?

Rose: i am just here to accept the honor of the all century team

Gray: Pete, don't you think its time to move on and come clean. I think America is ready to embrace you.

Rose: Why do we have to talk about the past.

Gray: I think you would be accepted to the hall of fame if you would just come clean and admit to gambling!

Rose: I dont' know what your talking about....



Apolyton has spoken Deity....just come clean and we can all move on from this

	20-06-2002 19:37									#89
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Deity: I say don't worry about it. Once you get a rep around here it becomes "fact" whether it is true or not. I play with alot of people usually with a timer. Most of them know me not to be a slow player. It happens on occassion that I take too long but not excessivley. I am in a game with AH and winzity right now, and except for when I fell asleep my turns have been averaging about 1 - 2 mins per turn. But no one would know that, because I've been labeled a slow player.

I say play as fast as you can without detracting from your game and if people want to play you they will, if they don't they won't.

I know RAH doesn't like this, but in the future I think games should be played with a timer - under the agreement that if a player needs more time for some emergency or unusually long turn, they can get it. Then the facts could speak for themselves. BTW, defending against being attacked by 3 civs simultaneously would qualify for an unusually long turn IMO.

	20-06-2002 19:52									#90
	Full PM-box? Change here!

DD, I still stand against the use of a timer.
F***ing stuborn old man

And yes defending against 3 civs is a good excuse but I believe it that was an exception, no one would be saying a word. What's the excuse the rest of the time.

And after playing with you a few times DD, I would rate you slightly slower than the average. (in all fairness, our group is usually very quick so any judgement is relative)

RAH