20-06-2002 20:00									#91
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I won't play some people without a timer, but against friends, it's not needed.

You know that Rich, you should see some of the games I played in that took forever because of one or two slowpokes.

I remember one game where this genius was arguing borders for 20 minutes on turn 10.

Playing slow is for SP, unless you find suckers...er, players willing to put up with it.

Oh, and on AH, nothing you say to him is considered confidential, he will link to other sites, quote private conversations, anything to embarris you.
It's his way, he can't help himself.

	20-06-2002 20:04									#92
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quote: Originally posted by rah And after playing with you a few times DD, I would rate you slightly slower than the average. (in all fairness, our group is usually very quick so any judgement is relative) RAH

I wouldn't argue with slightly slower then average. I would disagree with being nominated for the all-slow team

RAH what about a timer that you set at 1 hour. I havn't heard about anybody needing more then an hour and at it has 2 benefits.

1) People could factually see how long others are taking (it always seems longer when you ar stairing at the screen then when you are moving) instead of specualting about it in the forums.

2) You can tell if the game freezes and what kind of lags players are experiencing..

	20-06-2002 20:45									#93
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If it doesn't accomplish anything of value, why do it?
It's system overhead that actually slows down the game performance. Not much, but every little bit adds up till it's intolerable.

But I'm more pleased to see that you'd agree that you're slightly slower than average. If a person is never willing to admit that they're slow every now an then, there is ZERO chance that they will every attempt to speed up because if there's no problem, no reason to do anything different.
Heck, every now and then I'll have a slow spell too, but hopefully I'll recognize it and try to do something to speed it up even if it might mean that I didn't "MAXIMIZE" something. ie. If I have a specific caravan that is demanded by a city, and I forget what city it was. (it does happen after a FEW drinks )
Unless I'm only moving a couple of units that turn, I'll just press the space bar for that unit and check in between turns to remind myself where I should have been sending it. The thought of opening the trade advisor during my turn is repugnant to me.

RAH

AND, If I go to the bathroom, go outside, have a smoke, grab a beer and come back and the same person is STILL moving. I don't need a timer to say he's a slow player

	21-06-2002 04:33									#94
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I think DD's idea of long timer is a good idea.
At least it saves using a stop watch!

And, sorry Rah, but when my mythical slow play was created as a fact some two or three years ago I started to believe then that it might be true so I did all I could to speed up. I don't no if I'm quicker now and I still dispute the myth. Therefore, from your perspective I have tried and this is the result. What else can I do? I'm incapable of playing faster. It's just stirrers like AH and Markus that perpetuate the myth for trolling and other strategic purposes...

	21-06-2002 04:47									#95
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quote: Originally posted by deity I think DD's idea of long timer is a good idea. At least it saves using a stop watch! And, sorry Rah, but when my mythical slow play was created as a fact some two or three years ago I started to believe then that it might be true so I did all I could to speed up. I don't no if I'm quicker now and I still dispute the myth. Therefore, from your perspective I have tried and this is the result. What else can I do? I'm incapable of playing faster. It's just stirrers like AH and Markus that perpetuate the myth for trolling and other strategic purposes...

I posted how long you took per turns.. according to when my saves where written to disk..

So for tonights session you have no problem agreeing to a 20 minute timer since according to you, your never that slow.

	21-06-2002 09:10									#96
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Okay, I played a session of this game that Deity and Markus are in and I did not find Deity markedly slower than any other player in the game.

Not talking about Deity here on what I saw in that session - but I do think mass declaration of war is a good way to deal with slow players. Its kind of democratic and I imagine people will quickly get the message.

Maybe everyone should declare war if the slow player refuses a timer?

One annoying thing was I just managed to whip the Romans into shape and was about to take a city off the Spanish and the bloody session ended

If you take the Romans back now Raz you'll find they are in Monarchy, have a cash surplus of 60, every city is producing fighting units and I have sold every unnecessary improvement

	21-06-2002 09:44									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Okay, I played a session of this game that Deity and Markus are in and I did not find Deity markedly slower than any other player in the game. Not talking about Deity here on what I saw in that session - but I do think mass declaration of war is a good way to deal with slow players. Its kind of democratic and I imagine people will quickly get the message. Maybe everyone should declare war if the slow player refuses a timer? One annoying thing was I just managed to whip the Romans into shape and was about to take a city off the Spanish and the bloody session ended If you take the Romans back now Raz you'll find they are in Monarchy, have a cash surplus of 60, every city is producing fighting units and I have sold every unnecessary improvement

I was impressed, he played a LOT faster this session. We got through something like 10 turns in less playing time then we had last time.

I destroyed every city improvements in dieties cities facing me, plus I started to land invasion forces. Hopefully it won't be long now.

	21-06-2002 09:58									#98
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Trouble is Markusf, if it takes 3 or 4 of you to bring the big fella down then I'm afraid the game kudos goes to Deity

Well done D

	21-06-2002 10:34									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Trouble is Markusf, if it takes 3 or 4 of you to bring the big fella down then I'm afraid the game kudos goes to Deity Well done D

LOL Diety used all his units to attack winzity, others took advantage and grabed a empty city of dieties, and as you saw the romans where the only ones who could even attack, and they sent something like 2 units at him.

	21-06-2002 10:47									#100
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Bah! the Romans can't get at Deity. They don't have the techs!

Anyway I think now that Markus has tanks all the civs will have to gang up on him. Deity is a spent force but Markus is a threat to all the other civs!!!!

Don't let him fool you!!! If Deity goes down Markus'll turn on you one by one whilst he has a tech advantage!!!

	21-06-2002 14:14									#101
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quote: Originally posted by markusf LOL Diety used all his units to attack winzity, others took advantage and grabed a empty city of dieties, and as you saw the romans where the only ones who could even attack, and they sent something like 2 units at him.

Rubbish Markus. Dangime's icq's to me prove that you guys are trying to tie up my forces in the West so that you can get in on the East. Your spy invasion would have failed if I'd been able to move those defenders over to the EAST. Horsie is right. Dang is mad attacking me cos in the end I'm all that stands between Markus and world domination. It is quite insidious how Dang and Markus have allied to attack me East and West in a supposed diplo game when they haven't even met in game!

But hell, I'm having fun and other than Markus and Dang's spy/diplo pillaging I've won the battle honours and we are up to 1780+ now...

BOTH of Markus Battleships sunk from just TWO subs!! I had more if that wasn't enough. One was a vet. He seems to have given up on coastal assault - not one shot fired but he did manage to land a few Armour, most dead now He's been saying it's my last session since Zylka was playing in BC times!

I think I'm proving my point; and thanks AH, glad you could see first hand what was up here.

And my speed this week was exactly the same last week EXCEPT it didn't hang!

You really owe me an apolgy Markus. That is real muck raking stuff to keep going on about my speed. All your calculations were flawed by lag and outright hangs.

I played exactly the same today and even had MORE units.

	21-06-2002 15:57									#102
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stop talking about the game and get back to slagging deity

	21-06-2002 18:58									#103
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your point

	21-06-2002 19:42									#104
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I think the point is Deity is the superior player in that game and all this slow play talk is just about detracting from his achievement and putting him off his game.

	21-06-2002 22:57									#105
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quote: Originally posted by deity Rubbish Markus. Dangime's icq's to me prove that you guys are trying to tie up my forces in the West so that you can get in on the East. Your spy invasion would have failed if I'd been able to move those defenders over to the EAST. Horsie is right. Dang is mad attacking me cos in the end I'm all that stands between Markus and world domination. It is quite insidious how Dang and Markus have allied to attack me East and West in a supposed diplo game when they haven't even met in game! But hell, I'm having fun and other than Markus and Dang's spy/diplo pillaging I've won the battle honours and we are up to 1780+ now... BOTH of Markus Battleships sunk from just TWO subs!! I had more if that wasn't enough. One was a vet. He seems to have given up on coastal assault - not one shot fired but he did manage to land a few Armour, most dead now He's been saying it's my last session since Zylka was playing in BC times! I think I'm proving my point; and thanks AH, glad you could see first hand what was up here. And my speed this week was exactly the same last week EXCEPT it didn't hang! You really owe me an apolgy Markus. That is real muck raking stuff to keep going on about my speed. All your calculations were flawed by lag and outright hangs. I played exactly the same today and even had MORE units.

we played double the turns this session in 2/3 the time. Your turns where closer to 5 minutes this time.. maybe its because you had less cities to work with..

Ya dagmine must be real hard to deal with. He doesn't have a single offensive unit. face it you didn't know i had armour, you didn't think i would land on forests and knock out your fortifications. And now you got green to declare war on me which has more cities then you and dagmine combined Of course it doesn't matter that i destroyed all your improvements, razed a city to the ground, and knocked out a good portion of your army and all your major cities are shrinking by one a turn. Nope deity is winning no matter what.

	22-06-2002 04:26									#106
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Oh Deity's losing - but because you all had to gang up on him to bring him down he wins even if he loses, if you see what I mean

Ashes in your mouth Markusf

	22-06-2002 05:01									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Oh Deity's losing - but because you all had to gang up on him to bring him down he wins even if he loses, if you see what I mean Ashes in your mouth Markusf

Funny, normally in a war, one tends to lose cities and units. yet for all his whining diety hasn't lost units to anyone but me. I am not blind they are just "stagged" wars to spread techs.

	22-06-2002 11:49									#108
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quote: Originally posted by markusf we played double the turns this session in 2/3 the time. Your turns where closer to 5 minutes this time.. maybe its because you had less cities to work with.. Ya dagmine must be real hard to deal with. He doesn't have a single offensive unit. face it you didn't know i had armour, you didn't think i would land on forests and knock out your fortifications. And now you got green to declare war on me which has more cities then you and dagmine combined Of course it doesn't matter that i destroyed all your improvements, razed a city to the ground, and knocked out a good portion of your army and all your major cities are shrinking by one a turn. Nope deity is winning no matter what.

icq from Dangime:
"me? oh yeah well you are wasting at least 8 or 10 troops to keep me locked up instead of hitting you ^_^"

The point is Markus and Dangime have discussed the situation of eliminating me strategically. If Dangime wasn't still landing Muskets and diplos in the West, which ties up many defenders as he points out, Markus EASTERN spy invasion would have failed. With 3 mvt spies and Armour Markus could still land and move on Forests etc that would otherwise have had defenders on them. Plus his Armour invasion failed. He lost at least 4 or 5 Armour and another two or so are toast next turn.

And if Markus was fair he would admit that in the Tourney game last year where he suspected three civs had ganged up on HIM he just totally quit the game after losing ONE Wonder city! But despite losing all improvements in my cap and two other cities I continue to thwart his invasion. I'm having a bal and loving this as much as winning! But Markus seems to be whining about the whole thing all the time like it's some sort of duty! God he's a pain Thank goodness he still at least has decent conversations on icq!

I'm making a point here that, in game terms, is about a test of player character and real moral strength as AH is pointing out, thankfully
I draw the Churchill analogy here.... We will fight then in the swamps and in the forests but we shall never surrender.

Get with the program everyone!

This is the funnest part of the game!

Don't just concede and write your own orbituaries!

Re-write history

	22-06-2002 12:02									#109
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quote: Originally posted by markusf Funny, normally in a war, one tends to lose cities and units. yet for all his whining diety hasn't lost units to anyone but me. I am not blind they are just "stagged" wars to spread techs.

I've lost units to Dangime, Raz, Berzerker and Markus;
I've lost my captured Spanish cities to Markus and Winzity.

I've lost one minor mainland city each to Raz, Berzerker and a more major city to Dangime. None have been recaptured since I'm conserving resources to thwart invasions from East, West and South... go figure.

They are mostly not staged wars either and if they were I don't think you can complain when you openly plan with other players, in a supposed diplo game, that you haven't even met in-game!

	22-06-2002 12:13									#110
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Whilst I would encourage Green (J23SE) and all other players to attack you I did not 'plan' anything with J23SE.

	22-06-2002 22:59									#111
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quote: Originally posted by deity And if Markus was fair he would admit that in the Tourney game last year where he suspected three civs had ganged up on HIM he just totally quit the game after losing ONE Wonder city!

Ha, a great example of you changing the rules in the game as you go along. All of a sudden deity gifts units to Hydey and attacks me on the same turn. Hydey didn't have enough units to take my city so diety just keeps gifting units till he has enough. (this is all done on the same turn)

Of course your ignor the fact the session before you did that you reposted the rules saying unit gifting is banned.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=2

I suppose once could be considered a misunderstanding.. But then you tried to do the same thing 2 times in this game already. So one can only come to the conclusion that the rules everyone decides on are only in effect as long as diety thinks he is winning.

	23-06-2002 03:30									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey stop talking about the game and get back to slagging deity

I agree with the first part, and as for the second part... let's slag ALL slow players

	23-06-2002 04:20									#113
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quote: Originally posted by markusf Ha, a great example of you changing the rules in the game as you go along. All of a sudden deity gifts units to Hydey and attacks me on the same turn. Hydey didn't have enough units to take my city so diety just keeps gifting units till he has enough. (this is all done on the same turn) Of course your ignor the fact the session before you did that you reposted the rules saying unit gifting is banned. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=2 I suppose once could be considered a misunderstanding.. But then you tried to do the same thing 2 times in this game already. So one can only come to the conclusion that the rules everyone decides on are only in effect as long as diety thinks he is winning.

As you know Cavebear investigated this and said that NO rules were broken.
Makeo and Hydey along with Caveabear can confirm this.
You are just a sore loser; unlike me in the current game. In fact I'm winning, in the broadest sense of the word

	23-06-2002 04:27									#114
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I can confirm that the organiser of the tourney (cavebear) did investigate and found we had no case to face and that Markus should have played on.

	23-06-2002 04:42									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I agree with the first part, and as for the second part... let's slag ALL slow players

Ming, this is beyond a joke. Your talk and that of others keeps perpetuating the myth and making an assumption that I play slow. It's been proven wrong (other than connection problems and a few very long turns I've done over the years knocing out many cities)

I'm all for stirring in the forums but it's nice to draw a line and recognise the truth sometimes. Otherwise it gets very boring and does not encourage some honest posting.

Thank goodness the biggest stirrer of them all (AHorse) played in my current game.

	23-06-2002 04:53									#116
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Hmmm... let's see... I said we should slag ALL slow players. I didn't mention your name at all... and have never accused you of it on these forums...

A little touchy on this subject... aren't you

	23-06-2002 05:02									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Hmmm... let's see... I said we should slag ALL slow players. I didn't mention your name at all... and have never accused you of it on these forums... A little touchy on this subject... aren't you

YES!!!!!!!!!

And your comment IS in context.

You know perfectly well that this whole thread has developed into a 'bash slow deity' thread

I know War didn't intend it that way but he did inc me in the poll!

	23-06-2002 05:08									#118
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quote: Originally posted by deity YES!!!!!!!!! And your comment IS in context. You know perfectly well that this whole thread has developed into a 'bash slow deity' thread I know War didn't intend it that way but he did inc me in the poll!

Sorry Deity , didn't realize this was going to be such a problem

I only included you in the poll to take my own little jab at you....i wasn't expecting the whole community to jump all over you....

i hear you have sped things up last session though

	23-06-2002 05:20									#119
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever Sorry Deity , didn't realize this was going to be such a problem I only included you in the poll to take my own little jab at you....i wasn't expecting the whole community to jump all over you.... i hear you have sped things up last session though

No worries

But therein lies the problem. I haven't 'sped up', I just didn't have any lag ups. I played exactly the same way...

Damn myths and legends! I'm neither!

	23-06-2002 07:14									#120
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quote: Originally posted by deity Damn myths and legends! I'm neither!

Dang! I'm going to have to find someone else to worship.