18-06-2002 16:37									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt The Ministers work for US. The only one who could be considered to have any power is the Prez.

Not really. The Ministers work for the people, true, but the President has to follow the direction of his Ministers. Principle behind it being they represent the people.

	18-06-2002 17:22									#62
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It is true that some of the Prez's on-the-fly decisions that need to be made during the game are more cooperative with the turn chat idea (great idea BTW even if I can't make it ), but there are always some minor things that the Prez need not consult on, surely.

For example, if the poll options are to max production without jeopardizing the existing population, and the chioice is for, say 10 resources, 12 food and 10 trade vs 10 resources, 11 food and 11 trade, the Prez can make this decision, surely.

It isn't much power, but they DO get to play the game.

Ultimately though, the Prez is indeed accountable for every one of these decisions.

	18-06-2002 19:10									#63
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , by the powers of jupiter , ...... it would be fun to realease the SAV(e) , ....... , there is nothing to hide , nothing that can be done to harm the game , so , realease the game from its enslavement , .... the first one who try's to corrupt the game with a sav , if that is allready an option , shall be strucken by the powers of mars , .....; and so shall the second one be , and ALL the others following the first two , ....... of course in order to do that , we need to keep placing banana's in front of the gods , ...... have a nice day

So we should release it, let someone ruin the game, then boot them from our already ruined game?

	18-06-2002 19:16									#64
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Who can ruin the game if you post it somewhere?
it stays the same. i just cant get you.

Of course we can trust all our citizens. If a citizen wants to be bad, he can just play the innocent until he is elected president, and then rampages thru the save.

	18-06-2002 19:33									#65
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quote: Originally posted by disorganizer Who can ruin the game if you post it somewhere? it stays the same. i just cant get you.

Someones ill minded keyboard could suddenly start talking about unexplored areas and resources, then it would be kinda ruined....
But we can trust the people, at least we ought to?!

The Constitution states that you could have the .sav by email, if you specifically ask for it! But that's a governmental duty, and a tough duty for those buzy lads. So, ask for it!!!
If they still don't care, there could be impeachment cases legally proposed on behalf of this const. issue.
Ok, changing the const. is perhaps the best alternative then...

	18-06-2002 21:08									#66
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Elected officials are held to some higher accountability. From the way politics work in the real world, you could argue that that is not the case. But this game is not tempted by the corruption of money, women (alas), or power, which are all present and available in the real world. It only takes ONE person out of all them out there, to simply casually play the game a bit more, or look in the editor. I feel that there really isn't any question that eventually SOMEONE will 'cheat' in that matter. I just hope it doesn't affect the game.

And despite NYE's views of my policy, I'm glad that he would never accuse me of cheating in that manner. If I wanted to do that, I might as well go play another game of civ by myself. In case you haven't already seen, I've put hours upon hours into this game already, and I'm not simply doing that to become some oracle (but we can build it ). A pity now that I now have to spend even more time sending out the save to whoever wants it. Spent about an hour doing that altogether yesterday. Great fun, let me tell you.

	18-06-2002 22:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Pythagoras So we should release it, let someone ruin the game, then boot them from our already ruined game?

hi ,

how can one ruin a game , when he can not re-make all the moves , ........

if we think a bit logical about this , there is nothing to fear , .....

have a nice day

	18-06-2002 22:54									#68
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quote: Originally posted by panag how can one ruin a game , when he can not re-make all the moves , ........

Because he can tell us where other civs are, or the location of certain areas of terrain or geography as well. For instance, someone could load up the game in the editor right now and tell us we're on an island and the jungle takes up most of it. How would you like to know that right off the bat?
Or maybe there's another goody hut just out of reach or really good terrain in an area we weren't going to explore for a little while longer. That's how the game can be ruined, when you know where something is when you shouldn't. That can be a huge advantage.

	18-06-2002 23:36									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Because he can tell us where other civs are, or the location of certain areas of terrain or geography as well. For instance, someone could load up the game in the editor right now and tell us we're on an island and the jungle takes up most of it. How would you like to know that right off the bat? Or maybe there's another goody hut just out of reach or really good terrain in an area we weren't going to explore for a little while longer. That's how the game can be ruined, when you know where something is when you shouldn't. That can be a huge advantage.

hi ,

Trip , in time we shall learn anyway , ....

still , it would be very smart to release the SAV anyway , ..

now the option , or scenario that you mention above , can the leaders be trusted not to do this , .... nope , actually it comes to trust and a bit of game honour , ....
just imagine someone from the government releases it , after all we are all humans , everyone can make errors , a citizen could "look" , but so could a guy from the government , and there is no way of telling they might have not done that all-ready , ....

maybe we should put our fears on the side and trust the people a bit , ......

have a nice day

	18-06-2002 23:50									#70
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , Trip , in time we shall learn anyway , .... still , it would be very smart to release the SAV anyway , .. now the option , or scenario that you mention above , can the leaders be trusted not to do this , .... nope , actually it comes to trust and a bit of game honour , .... just imagine someone from the government releases it , after all we are all humans , everyone can make errors , a citizen could "look" , but so could a guy from the government , and there is no way of telling they might have not done that all-ready , .... maybe we should put our fears on the side and trust the people a bit , ...... have a nice day

I trust the ministers more with this. And they can get booted from office for doing this. (throug elections)

quote: Trip , in time we shall learn anyway , ....

Yes we will, but we should all move ahead to that point TOGETHER and SIMULTANEOUSLY. One person peeking ahead and telling everyone does not allow that. We are all playing as if we were all one player. Why should anyone of us gain unfair knowledge?

	19-06-2002 00:11									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Pythagoras I trust the ministers more with this. And they can get booted from office for doing this. (throug elections) Yes we will, but we should all move ahead to that point TOGETHER and SIMULTANEOUSLY. One person peeking ahead and telling everyone does not allow that. We are all playing as if we were all one player. Why should anyone of us gain unfair knowledge?

hi ,

so in other words the people can not be trusted , ...but the government is chosen from the people , .....

also , so what if some talks , just ignore him , ...
if someone want to be less "fun" , let him be , ...
this does not mean that other have a to follow , ...

have a nice day

	19-06-2002 00:18									#72
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WHERE CAN I FIND THE SAVE FILE!!!

	19-06-2002 00:24									#73
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quote: Originally posted by PapaLenin WHERE CAN I FIND THE SAVE FILE!!!

hi ,

cast your vote on the top , and who knows , maybe in a thread , ....

have a nice day

	19-06-2002 00:37									#74
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I already voted to trust the citizens, but upon more thought I think the best solution might be to withold the save file until our map of the world is complete (should be at least by 1000 ad if we trade maps), that way I really don't see what someone could do to spoil the game for everyone even if they wanted to since we'd already know who is out there and where. Sure they could say the Romans are gonna declare war on you in 4 turns, but unless our president happens to do the exact same sequence of moves that they did when that happened its not likely to happen again anyways because of the way the random seed works.

	19-06-2002 02:59									#75
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double post

	19-06-2002 03:01									#76
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post your email on the topped mailing list thread and you'll get it.

	19-06-2002 04:02									#77
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I agree with wervdon, the save game should be withheld until we have the world mapped. Maybe games can be saved evry 20 or so turns and then released from that point on, though i think the released saved game can be held back for 20 turns to prevent people from testing strategies. Perhaps we should have a poll on this.

	19-06-2002 05:25									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie I agree with wervdon, the save game should be withheld until we have the world mapped. Maybe games can be saved evry 20 or so turns and then released from that point on, though i think the released saved game can be held back for 20 turns to prevent people from testing strategies. Perhaps we should have a poll on this.

That is acceptable. Though someone could still concievably load a save game, do espianage, reload, do different espianage elsewhere till they know the whole state of the game.

Of course this should be considered deplorable and cheating, and anyone who does that should be booted.