25-06-2002 22:58									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing If we attack one of the settler stacks before we are in positon. We get 2 slaves. Then we wait on a mountain top. When they send their offensive forces against us - we jump on them.

This logic is flawed. It should be: If we attack one of the settler stacks and win, we get 2 workers.... And the odds to win are less than to lose a scouting warrior, one of the 2 we have.

	25-06-2002 23:23									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph This logic is flawed. It should be: If we attack one of the settler stacks and win, we get 2 workers.... And the odds to win are less than to lose a scouting warrior, one of the 2 we have.

exactly. and even if we DO win, and DO get 2 slaves and a veteran warrior that takes no damage (best case scenario, not likely), the French will prepare for a war before we do.

not good.

	25-06-2002 23:32									#33
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What if one of out Archers finds a settler stack?

	25-06-2002 23:58									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph My proposed approach is: 1) We should capture the French capital... 2) Yes, the archers should scout, but carefully... 3) We should attack Paris first... 4) We declare war, before we cross their borders...

I agree with 1, 2 and 4 (mostly). 3 is good too, but we may be able to take 2 cities.

The city they should be about to build will be closer to us than Paris. By the time the attack forces are together and near the French it may well be size 2 or 3 ::yum::

If this is the case, it could be captured first then move on to Paris. Except...

It all depends. It is premature to decide such specific manoeuvres. Not too soon to discuss the possibilities though.

	26-06-2002 00:02									#35
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skywalker,

It could be disastrous to start the war with France at any point prior to our stack being in position to attack a city in 2 turns (ie right outside the border). Going after any wandering settlers prior to our declaring war to take cities would be a mistake.

Once war starts, then by all means we should add more slaves to our ranks.

	26-06-2002 00:04									#36
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Uber has a very good point about seeing the horses before we end the war with France. We will need fast troops given that our empire will be very spread out.

Perhaps we can buy the Wheel very soon.

	26-06-2002 01:02									#37
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If we see any settler stacks, though, we should separate an archer from the main group to follow it. We don't want any of them escaping and reestablishing themselves far away from us.

	26-06-2002 01:07									#38
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Hmm, let them 'escape' for now. Remember the objective is to vassalize, not destroy at this point. Let them go and build us a new city for later.

	26-06-2002 02:02									#39
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Hmm, let them 'escape' for now. Remember the objective is to vassalize, not destroy at this point. Let them go and build us a new city for later.

i'd rather have 2 slave workers than an AI city far from our capital...

thats just me

	26-06-2002 02:13									#40
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Can we truly afford to seperate forces from our stack, however? I don't think so, but depends on the situation at the time.

As long as doing so does not deter from primary objectives, yeah, two more slaves would be nice. But we must remain focused on the goal.

	26-06-2002 02:15									#41
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Once Paris goes and the French capitol bounces, any new French cities would most likely go in our new area. Unless, of course there is no decent terrain there.

To keep France useful for tech may well be worth passing up an opportunity for 2 slaves. Cheaper tech may well prove to be more valuable than a couple of slaves, especially because our own workers are so good.

Any dilution of our main force could have very bad consequences. It would be a h*ll of a note to fall short of taking a 2nd or 3rd French city because we come up 1 archer short (he's off chasing settlers, or worse, he dies trying).

Given the forces we will have. We should secure all city objectives (Paris plus 1 or 2 more) before any other missions are undertaken. After we have the ground we are going for, then we might do some worker chasing while waiting to Joan to come around to surrender.

	26-06-2002 02:21									#42
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Kingof The Apes your right. It is best to get everything you can out of the AI and that means making peace and declaring war a few times.

	26-06-2002 13:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The city will be autorazed, I fear.

Aye. Some times a city is just destroyed by the fighting and there's no choice to be made.

In case somebody hasn't figured out how this works, I'll provide a brief explanation:
When you capture a city, it will often lose some infrastructure and the population will decrease. This simulates the damage done to the city during the final battle, plus the fact that some people would be killed or injured while others would run away and not come back.

When you do this to a size 1 city, it will disappear from right under your nose.

The city is completely destroyed in the fighting and you're left with nothing but the ground it stood on.

	26-06-2002 19:14									#44
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i'd rather have 2 slave workers than an AI city far from our capital... thats just me

A palace jump may make the city not so far from the capital...

	28-06-2002 03:17									#45
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We should keep all but one, maybe two, cities to extract the maximum war reparations.

	28-06-2002 08:26									#46
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quote: after our peace treaty expires.

Peace treaties are automatically recreated after each 20 turns, but we can still renegotate them manually and then declare war. (Or just declare war, it does not make a difference in our reputation.)

	28-06-2002 09:04									#47
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it does make a difference in reputation. A treaty after war has a 20 turn limit, like any other "deal".

And it will change us in the views of other nations as well. Its bad to declare war every 5 turns.

	28-06-2002 11:00									#48
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I couldn't participate in the chat, and my suggestions were ignored (that's OK, btw).

But I want to point them out again, and then discuss going forward.

1) I would have preferred 1 Warrior prior to the Barracks or Settler in Apo. The lack of map knowledge kills me.

2) The westward Warrior should have infringed on France's territory, so we'd know Paris' terrain.

No insult intended, but I think it's absurd to have Warriors exploring far off lands while we don;t know what's going on within 10 tiles of our cities... not that distant exploration isn't good / necessary, but we need to know the map nearby.

I suggest switching Apo to a Warrior or Archer NOW, and then building the Settler. The unit can then be used to explore, and then as a rover in the attack on Paris.

	28-06-2002 11:08									#49
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We need that settler now Theseus. It has alrady been delayed by about 13 or 14 turns.

Yes the worker we built will prove valuable. The Barracks first was about all the extra delay we can brook.

The city that the settler will build is scheduled to contribute to the initial wave of troops for the war.

I agree that the warriors now should circle to explore near us. I will not complain about progress so far though. We found the Iroquois first and were able to secure tech because of it.

	28-06-2002 11:14									#50
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BTW. I think our warrior is circling Paris and should get a view of the city itself from the mountains west of it in a few turns.

I think Trip and Uber plan to flesh out the area between France and US with the first archers built. They will have a bit of time while they wait for the final troops.

Last edited by notyoueither on 28-06-2002 at 11:58

	28-06-2002 11:18									#51
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nye,

Yes, good good good.

1 Warrior would have been OK, though, I think... I haven't figured out the math though, so I might be wrong.

In Despotism, a town with 1 garrisoned Warrior needs an entertainer at 3 or 4 pop?

	28-06-2002 11:32									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Andreiguy Peace treaties are automatically recreated after each 20 turns (...)

This is not entirely correct.
If the peace treaty was signed unconditionally, it will remain standing after 20 turns, kind of like a trade agreement that is not renegotiated. It will not automatically be renewed for another 20 turns, it will just remain in effect "until further notice". So, technically, once the initial 20 turns have passed, the treaty can be cancelled or renegotiated at any time.

Also, if the AI had to give us anything at all in return for peace, they will automatically come back after 20 turns and ask to extend the peace treaty. (Though this time they will want to do it unconditionally.)

	28-06-2002 12:04									#53
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Theseus,

1 Warrior keeps the 2nd pop working. The 3rd pop goes unhappy. Sir Ralph suggested we build a spearman after the settler to keep the city producing at 3 pop. That spearman is called for in the plan and it can stay in Apolyton until the last of the 6 archers is finished.

	28-06-2002 13:04									#54
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After the Pink Army departs (no spearman anymore), one citizen of Apolyton has to be switched to specialist. To taxman, if the city is still size 3, to entertainer if it is size 4. We should get rid of the unproductive citizen ASAP by producing 10 shields and then poprush a temple. After this, another settler is due.

Btw: It's not good to produce a settler in Banana HQ now. I'd suggest to switch this to warrior (according to Case Pink) to produce an initial garrison for the Red City. It's the small details that save us time.

	29-06-2002 02:30									#55
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I agree... build a Warrior.

Also, French Warrior (is that right?) should intrude on France's territory on the mountain that is 2 tiles to the NW of Paris. We NEED to know whether Paris is on a hill, and where the rivers are.

	29-06-2002 08:15									#56
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I'm new to this grand republic. Can I still join the Academy? BTW, I belong to the DIA but I think that we must crush the pinks to better our economy. Sadly I cannot add any ideas on the coming war because I have no clue what is going on, can some one up date me on the current situation?

	29-06-2002 13:47									#57
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trevor: I signed you up. The official join thread is this.

	29-06-2002 23:35									#58
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First of all I support this plan totally and thank everyone for their good work. Just a question and a comment.
1) Is there a danger of either france and america getting writting and then having the danger of an alliance against us?. If this should happen what are the plans we have against it. I remember one game where russia had every known country against me, so i worry about that.
2) if we were going to clear that jungle square anyway it is better we clear it before we build the road since that way the road cost less time. So by doing that we saved time. Unless ofcourse the jungle was not meant to be cleared until later.
Aggie

	29-06-2002 23:53									#59
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Yes Aggie, the longer the plan takes the larger the possibility of any number of problems arising. The French could get swordsmen. The Americans could ally with them. I think we should build defencive spearmen in BanahaHQ, Red and Blue City as soon as the archers depart.

re The military highway that I proposed as part of the plan. Well, it appears as if nobody is paying much attention to the mathematics of our workers. We can easily build the highway before our 2 workers are needed for additional clearing back home, and that highway would be very useful sooner rather than later for getting resources and luxuries back to the capitol. However, it doesn't appear as if the ministers (or very many others) agree with me.

	29-06-2002 23:56									#60
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I think the southern worker should put his effort on mining and roading grassland around the southern city sites, we need more shields now, or else the unit building will take very long.