26-06-2002 05:19									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Why don't they draw their own picture and put the Pope in hell. Seems like a simple solution -- plus they can put in a few more demons and flames if they want...

Ughh, because they are Islamic? Could it be because pictures of people is against the religion?


Its not allowed Lincoln. Othodox Christians can't do it either.

	26-06-2002 05:20									#32
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I was joking.

	26-06-2002 05:56									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by oedo two atheists saying yes so far. doesn´t make much sense for me. I am agnostic and say no.

I am atheist and I said yes.

I think that things like that promote religious bigotry and should be removed, or at least put into an objective, "clinical" setting (e.g. a museum).

	26-06-2002 06:38									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The former act seems an offense against any God's teachings Seeing that he didn't have sex with her what does it matter?

Why do you say that?

	26-06-2002 06:44									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Because he married her as an engagment type of thing (engagements really didn't exist in the Arab world then), and more for political purposes, IIRC. And I don't think they had any kids.

	26-06-2002 07:02									#36
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Why don't they draw their own picture and put the Pope in hell.

There actually are a few pictures of Popes in hell in Renaissance cathedrals.

quote: Seeing that he didn't have sex with her what does it matter?

The Koran says the marriage was consumated at age nine I think...

	26-06-2002 07:10									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

They should deface Mohammed's face, to please the Muslims obviously, and then sell it to a museum NOT in the USA or Middle East...

	26-06-2002 07:17									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Hueij Hm... I hope I won't forget to remind some of the people here of this thread when there is another outburst here when someone shows another painting in the near future of the Holy Virgin made of african elephant poop...

Or a crucifix in a jar of urine.

Works like these are publicly supported in the good 'ol US of A.

	26-06-2002 08:31									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I say remove it, but ask the Muslims to make a similar gesture of goodwill towards the Christian community.

Stick it in an European art gallery.

	26-06-2002 08:36									#40
	Got spare money?

Devout christian italians have always been a little screwey. Why do you think the Pope's from Poland?

	26-06-2002 08:41									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Faboba Devout christian italians have always been a little screwey. Why do you think the Pope's from Poland?

Possibly because 50 or so Cardinals decided that centuries of Italian Popes without a break was enough.

The phrase nowadays goes:

Is the Pope Catholic?

But it used to be:

Is the Pope Italian?

	26-06-2002 08:46									#42
	Support Apolyton

Seeing that he didn't have sex with her what does it matter?

Erm, being that she bragged about it, I find this rather doubtful.

Because he married her as an engagment type of thing (engagements really didn't exist in the Arab world then), and more for political purposes, IIRC. And I don't think they had any kids.

No, he married her because he saw her and decided that this is the woman for him. Then Gabriel came down and backed up his intuition and told him "marry away." Political purposes are null because she was the daughter of a blood brother/ brother-in-law/ something equivalent to a brother but not biological (forget what it actually was).

The Koran says the marriage was consumated at age nine I think...

No, some hadith reports say she did so. Something along married at 7, consumated at 9. The Koran doesn't ever mention her. It's pretty easy to remember too, being that the only woman the Koran ever refers to by name is Maryam, the mother of Jesus. For that matter, not too many contemporaries were refered to in general by name (Abu Lahab, Mohammed of course, and maybe 1 or 2 others).

As for whether Mohammed should be in hell, I'd say that even if I knew the exact details of his life, it would be for God to decide anyway. However, we don't know the details of his life. Best case, he's a saint; worst case, he's a psychopathic murderer and pedophile. This doesn't narrow things down very well.

	26-06-2002 08:48									#43
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I think that people should buy their own paint. After all, how much money did it cost to buy a pound of dung and a plastic statue of the virgin Mary?

The flap over this piece is ludicrous. Never mind that the artist who made it is a devout Catholic. Never mind that he considered his work as reverence for the Virgin Mary. Never mind that his use of elephant dung was in no way intended as a slur (hell, all pigments used to made with such natural material).

No, people just hear "Virgin Mary made from poop" and assume it's an attack on a religion. The people who made such assumptions (like Giuliani) only succeeded in making asses of themselves.

	26-06-2002 09:00									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What is loosed on Earth is loosed in heaven and what is bound on Earth is bound in heaven.

	26-06-2002 09:11									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Possibly because 50 or so Cardinals decided that centuries of Italian Popes without a break was enough. The phrase nowadays goes: Is the Pope Catholic? But it used to be: Is the Pope Italian?

The good thing about Italians is, if you're bored you can devote as much time as you feel like to studying Italian politics and you'll still never understand it.

Their governmental system has no real purpose other than to make sure the communists never actually get control of the country.

The pope of the modern world is much less of a political figure than before but he still carries some political weight. No one in their right minds, upon seeing the Italian government, would let an Italian near the political arena if it could be helped.

Anyone who can understand Italain politics is much to devious to be trustable.

	26-06-2002 10:11									#46
	Remove this text

quote: Anyone who can understand Italain politics is much to devious to be trustable.

I don't know about the present case but back when the city states were squabling and Maciavelli wrote the The Prince someone understood the politics well enough. The French came in and conquered a lot of it because the Italians were too busy being devious to actually do anything constructive about stopping them.

	26-06-2002 11:35									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui No, art shouldn't be subsidised at all .

Only when corporations get weaned off Mama Government's teat.

Gatekeeper

	26-06-2002 11:56									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Mohammed being in heaven and seing that non-Muslims are there as well would be enough of a hell for him

Today's muslims declare so many people in hell that IMO they don't have the right to complain about a centuries old picture in a non-Muslim country which even does not reflect the general attitude nowadays. Redeclare the person to be OBL

	26-06-2002 12:11									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus Mohammed being in heaven and seing that non-Muslims are there as well would be enough of a hell for him Today's muslims declare so many people in hell that IMO they don't have the right to complain about a centuries old picture in a non-Muslim country which even does not reflect the general attitude nowadays. Redeclare the person to be OBL

I agree completely. Quit whining and get to work trying to live up to the 'peaceful religion' crap that I've heard so much about and seen so little of. Honestly, how many of Islam's problems are going to be solved by actions taken in non-Islamic countries?

	26-06-2002 12:22									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A bit offensive to have it in a church. Museum? No problem.

	26-06-2002 13:13									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'm 50% for and 50% against.

I'm against lobby groups ... And this painting is an ancient artwork and have to be respect as it.

Since it is a violant point of view : sending the muslim Prophet into the Eternal Flame of the Hell. And I considere that, even muslim are wrong for christians point of view, christians shall not decide who should go to hell and who should go to Paradise, only their God could do it.

	26-06-2002 13:23									#52
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ned Regardless, Mohammed did marry a 9-year old girl and waged aggressive war to spread the faith.

She was the daughter of one of his relative or friend, and she was orphan. Political interest was one of the reasons.

I don't think he "consummed" before she had a (at this time) acceptable age for that. And I haven't read in the Koran that he f*cked her at nine.

	26-06-2002 14:16									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Zobo, Well I don't know the truth here. There seems to be more than one story floating around. How does one separate the wheat from the chaff?

BTW, there is a Gnostic gospel that suggests that Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene was far from Platonic. Who can tell from this distance?

	26-06-2002 14:52									#54
	Put an end to popups!

ZoboZeWarrior : reminds me of some catholic priests , actually.

they all suck. banana.

	26-06-2002 14:52									#55
	Suffering from ads?

" I did not have sex with that woman, miss M. Magdalene"

	26-06-2002 14:55									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

I wonder which one is Mohammed

	26-06-2002 16:44									#57
	Suffering from ads?

Its about religion so I don't give a frig

	26-06-2002 17:02									#58
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If there is a hell, Mohammed is in it. Keep the painting!

	26-06-2002 17:14									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I say keep it where it is, this is what religion is all about- if the catholics removed the pic they may as well stop being catholic all together, and if muslims did'nt blow up buddist statues, they too may as well stop being muslim.

You may as well suggest the KKK become more inclusive and accept black, jews and catholics into their movement, or suggest that the World Wide Masogynic Movement Against Women elect a female president.

All this revisionist bull annoys me- like it clearly states in the bible that homosexualityis wrong in the eyes of god- yet you get christians trying to pretend theirs is not a homophobic outfit and they really don't think gay people should be flogged after all

sh*t should stink.

	26-06-2002 18:50									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"Mommy, why does daddy enter the big bear's tushie?"

seriously, which one is Mohammad?