29-07-2002 14:16									#61
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hi... i've been working too much lately and have not had time to play this very fun apolyton game... have you officially closed the tournament or will you extend it?

If you extend it a few days or a week, i'll have a chance to submit my save... i realize it was already a month-long tourny and my own fault for not finishing on time, so whatever you decide, it's OK with me. But since you said there were so few entries... ;-)

I'm in the renaissance era and am doing fairly well... I'm overall ranked #1 but my science and mil are way below everyone.

It's fun though. I thought maybe the next game could be another apolyton game??? I've never played goodmod...

Later.

	29-07-2002 20:01									#62
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I like the idea of a goodmod game, I haven't had a chance to play a full game with it. This is IMO what is so great about this tournament, I only have time to play about one full game of CTP per month, and through this tournament we are able to get a sample of all the mods, to test them for there strengths and weaknesses. Locutus, is there any chance of using some of the scenarios as tournament games?

	30-07-2002 00:22									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DeanToth It's fun though. I thought maybe the next game could be another apolyton game???

Maybe the next game is another Apolyton game, so far I don't know which setup of GoodMod Locutus will chose. We could use the setup GoodMod for CityMod2, GoodMod for MedPack2, GoodMod for Apolyon Pack or GoodMod for Apolyton Pack: Ultra Gigantic Maps. Even if the last setup isn't complete since the last update of ApolytonPack, therefore a small update will be required.

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge I've never played goodmod...

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge I like the idea of a goodmod game, I haven't had a chance to play a full game with it. This is IMO what is so great about this tournament, I only have time to play about one full game of CTP per month, and through this tournament we are able to get a sample of all the mods, to test them for there strengths and weaknesses.

So I think it is now time for both of you to play GoodMod.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Too bad this month had so few entries I guess it was a little *too* hard. I will post a new tournament and rankings for this one soon. I'm almost (but not quite) certain that next tournament will be played on Very Hard GoodMod, hopefully that will be more manageable... But Martin, you're the expert, your advise would be welcome: maybe King is better still?

I think what the game made so difficuilt was the high Barbarian settings, so drop one or two risk levels, usual I play on boring hordes level, but maybe decent hordes could be ok (I didn't modified the risk.txt). For the difficuilty level I usual play on King, it wasn't so hard to catch up in techs like on impossible level of ApolytonPack, but as I used the DiffDB.txt from ApolytonPack you should see here no huge differences, maybe after the experience of the Apolyton Impossible level we should really drop two levels of difficuilty so that everyone can relax a little bit.

Now for the options a GoodMod for MedPack game is over in the year 2200AD like a MedPack game. The GoodMod for ApolytonPack and CityMod2 option will allow to play to the year 2300AD. The tech costs in the CityMod2 version are the same as the ones in the original game, I think some of the techs in the original game are too cheap. In the ApolytonPack version you have the other problem some of the techs are two expensive, Dale multipled the tech costs in ApolytonPack with the age number of the original game that a tech had there, so a Diamond tech in ApolytonPack costs 5 or 6 times more than in the original game, the result is that I had research times of 60 - 100 turns for just one tech under Communism, that is to high actual. The question here is if we like to see a Gaja Victory or not, probably if we use the MedPack2 version we won't see a Gaja Victory, too. But I think MedPack2 isn't designed to support a Gaja Victory.

One disadvantage of the MedPack2 version is yet that I hadn't the time to implement all the feature I have in also for MedPack2. So I go for the ApolytonPack Standart version Ultra Gigantic Map is too huge, and the city limits of that version are also for the normal gigantic map too high. So map size should be like in the old tournerments, the same with the number of opponents. So just take a random generated map pollution on, bloodlust off, King, decent hordes and the rest is up to you.

One last piont I guess you wanted to ask me if I could fill out the add a file form of the new Apolyton Directory, I will do it with a small update in order to reflect the updates of Apolyton Pack and MedPack2.

-Martin

	30-07-2002 18:05									#64
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quote: Originally posted by DeanToth have you officially closed the tournament or will you extend it?

Dean,
Sorry, the tournament is closed. I extended the last one because it was the only one and because it was hard to say how long a good duration for the tournament would be. At present though I'm happy with the 1 month duration, I'm not gonna extend it for a number of reasons. The most important one is that if I extend it again now, I'll end up extending it every month, I don't like that idea. Also, it wouldn't be fair to those who worked very hard to finish the tourney in time to reward those of us who were lazy and waited until the last minute or didn't play fast enough.

You can still send in your entry though (I still intend to send in mine as well), it just won't count in the official ranking (but I'm willing to update an unofficial ranking once or twice more after I've created it from the official entries)...

But don't worry, this time you won't have to wait another month before the next tournament starts, if it wasn't for Martin's late update of the GoodMod, it would have started already. As it is, it could start anywhere between an hour and two days from now, but certainly not later.

quote: It's fun though. I thought maybe the next game could be another apolyton game??? I've never played goodmod...

See centrifuge's comments about why I picked GoodMod rather than Apolyton Pack: it's *because* you (and many others) have never played it before... But if it's any comfort, the next Tournament will be Apolyton Pack + GoodMod, so you'll kind of still have your Apolyton Pack game...

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge This is IMO what is so great about this tournament, I only have time to play about one full game of CTP per month, and through this tournament we are able to get a sample of all the mods, to test them for there strengths and weaknesses.

I'm glad you like my philosophy behind this tournaments feature

Martin,
Thanks for your comments, I'll drop the difficulty level by 2 and the barbarian level by 1 then. Hopefully that will create a game that is just challanging enough for most players here.

I'm somewhat in doubt whether or not to go for regular Apolyton Pack or the ultra-gigantic version: I would like to have a game with 12 (I have a specific setting in mind), doing that with the regular version of AP might be too hard in terms of city limits, but APUL might be too easy... Oh well, I'll give it some thought...

	31-07-2002 05:12									#65
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I seem to be having some problems with starting GoodMod games, so unfortunately I can't start the new tournament right now. I'll try to fix it ASAP, hopefully we can start tomorrow...

	31-07-2002 16:53									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus I seem to be having some problems with starting GoodMod games, so unfortunately I can't start the new tournament right now. I'll try to fix it ASAP, hopefully we can start tomorrow...

Well let us know what are the problems. (I hope it is not my fault. )

-Martin

	31-07-2002 17:29									#67
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It crashes after I end my first turn. (I assume you tested it before launching the update? )

Edit: this goes for both AP versions of the GM. But I haven't tested it too thoroughly yet so for all I know I'm doing something really stupid wrong...

	31-07-2002 20:42									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus It crashes after I end my first turn. (I assume you tested it before launching the update? ) Edit: this goes for both AP versions of the GM. But I haven't tested it too thoroughly yet so for all I know I'm doing something really stupid wrong...

Well it was my fault, I have to apology here to everyone. So actual it was Diplomod I guess it is now again as buggy as the ApolytonPack version. But it will now allow you to hit end turn without any problems. That teachs me to test last minutes fixes next time at least with a one time hit of the end turn button. The odd thing was that I had no problem with hitting end turn on an Ultra Gigantic Map, I only didn't moved anything.

Another question do I need now to fill out the modify a file form or can you just move the file from my page to the Apolyton Directory unbureaucratic? Another problem I have now with my GoodMod thread is that hexagonian is still the thread starter of it officially and that is wrong.

-Martin

	31-07-2002 21:44									#69
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Well, it was a rather curious but, sometimes I could end my turn, sometimes I couldn't. Still haven't figured it out but I guess it doesn't matter anymore...

Normally you'd have to modify your submission but in this case I already uploaded the fixed version for you.

About the thread starter thingy, can you edit the first post or is it just an 'estatic' problem? I'll inform Markos of this but I have no idea if he can do anything about it... It's a very, very weird bug indeed...

	31-07-2002 22:47									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus About the thread starter thingy, can you edit the first post or is it just an 'estatic' problem? I'll inform Markos of this but I have no idea if he can do anything about it... It's a very, very weird bug indeed...

Actual it is a estatic problem for me but it could also make people to associate Dave as the creator of GoodMod and this shouldn't hapen. I already added the first post in the hope the forum script will correct this, but it didn't. But this wasn't the first bug that appeared in this thread, at the very beginning of the existence the order of the first two posts was reversed until I edited the initial post the first time. I could live with the first bug as it was clear who made the initial post but it should also clear from a short glance from the main summery forum page, so that no one gets confused and asked Dave for some tips about GoodMod, if it wouldn't be a thread about a mod but about a small question then that wouldn't be such a problem.

-Martin

	31-07-2002 23:58									#71
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Very well, I'll point it out to Markos. I'll doubt he'll want and/or is able to do anything about it, but I'll point it out anyway.

New tournament will start sometime in the next 2 hours, I'm all ready to go (I decided against UL after all this mess, but I think it could still be an interesting game).

	01-08-2002 04:57									#72
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Well, it took a while because I wanted to give organizing the next tournament precedence, but I finally got around to making an unofficial ranking for the tournament of last month. Note: if you submit your savegame in the next 3-4 weeks or so, I will still add your score to this unofficial ranking. Due to the high difficulty-level of this month's tournament it might be difficult for some people to have finished the game in time, this is the least I can do. The official score (which I will publish ASAP but which will be identical to the score below with centrifuge's second game removed) will not be updated though (but there's a link from the official score to the unofficial one, if it's any comfort).

code:
Endyear
-------

Rank   Player		Victory Type	Year	Points  Cities	 Pop	Advanc	Wonders	Feats	Last Research
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1   centrifuge	(2)	Conquest	1806 AD	28,680	 43	1081	 42	 6	 3	Oil Refining
 2   centrifuge		Conquest	2062 AD	38,315	 42	1729	 65	15	 6	Adv. Urban Pl.
 3   Martin Gühmann	Diplomatic	2166 AD	14,355	 48	1146	 67	10	 5	Supersonic Fl.
 4   ETB		2200 AD		2200 AD	22,100	 49	1817	 74	20	 4	Nuclear Power
 5   Jesper Portus	2200 AD		2200 AD	24,925	156	2013	 73	19	 5	Nuclear Power

Endscore
--------

Rank   Player		Victory Type	Points	Year    Cities	 Pop	Advanc	Wonders	Feats	Last Research
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1   centrifuge		Conquest	38,315	2062 AD	 42	1729	 65	15	 6	Adv. Urban Pl.
 2   centrifuge (2)	Conquest	28,680	1806 AD	 43	1081	 42	 6	 3	Oil Refining
 3   Jesper Portus	2200 AD		24,925	2200 AD	156	2013	 73	19	 5	Nuclear Power
 4   ETB		2200 AD		22,100	2200 AD	 49	1817	 74	20	 4	Nuclear Power
 5   Martin Gühmann	Diplomatic	14,355	2166 AD	 48	1146	 67	10	 5	Supersonic Fl.

Damn, centrifuge, you defeated 39 opponents in the first game and 42 in the second You convincingly defeated all other participants in both endyear and endscore (the fact that there were 4 opponents is hardly relevant here, you would almost certainly have done the same if 40 people had particated)

This technique you discovered is sort of a new ICS: if I declare it legal, everyone will *have to* use it if they want to have a shot at winning the tournament. Of course, that's not a good idea so I'll take measures if this technique is used more often in the future. Most probably I will say that all opponents defeated above twice the original number of players in the game don't earn you your 500 bonus points. So in your case, I would have deducted 22x500=11,000 points from the final score. In most tournaments that will probably be enough to bump you from the first spot in the endscore category. I'm not sure if I can do anything about the endyear stat, but I think it could still be possible to defeat a score achieved with this technique with a diplomatic victory or a good regular conquest victory (since in that case you don't loose time reconquering all the revolting cities), so I'm not sure if it's even needed. We'll see about that for now...

Don't worry though, I'll count both your victories for this once, as reward for your discovery However, I will take the second game as the 'official' one, even though the first victory is more impressive.

	01-08-2002 05:15									#73
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The only downside i can see with reconquering revolting, new nations, is that each time it happens youll lose a population point in that revolting city. Maybe if the revolting cities had some in-built militia like in cradle it might deter people from using it.

	01-08-2002 06:45									#74
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DP

	01-08-2002 07:01									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Damn, centrifuge, you defeated 39 opponents in the first game and 42 in the second

I knew that it was alot, but I didn't realize that it got up to 42... I stopped counting after about 30

quote: Originally posted by Locutus I'll take measures if this technique is used more often in the future. Most probably I will say that all opponents defeated above twice the original number of players in the game don't earn you your 500 bonus points.

Sounds good to me, as I wrote above, I consider this a bug.

Another thing that, makes this "technique" beneficial (and a probable cheat), is that after a city revolts, all of the slaves become citizens, so once it is retaken, the cities lose the negative effects of having slaves. Take Mexico City for example, in my game I loaded it with slaves and it revolted over and over (about 10 times), but when it was all over, it was enormous (probably rediculously so) and had no slaves.

	01-08-2002 07:25									#76
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Congrats to the winners.

Err...... winner.

BTW, I believe that the phantom civs you got were related to all the revolts you had. Maybe it caused more civs to be present than the actual amount allowed by MaxCivs= in userprofile.txt?????? Just a thought.

	01-08-2002 08:13									#77
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That sounds likely, thanks for the explanation, Dale.
Does anyone know how high the MaxCiv= can be set? Is it just a function of the number of civs that are available in the game, or can it be set higher so that civs can respawn? I'd test it, but I'm lazy and if anyone knows already, it would save me the trouble.