26-06-2002 14:32									#1
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Last night I discovered with absolute certainty that the AI "cheats" i.e. knows where you are, your units, etc...

The AI was sending LOTS of units towards a city of mine (2 Inf. guarding) then when they reached the city I re loaded from the autosave 2turns back and send forces to the city from a route that they should not be able to see them (I had RR which gave me the ability to pack a lot in the city). Well the AI just turned around and went for another city which I was the least defended in the area.

Ok, it could have been a diverting move from the AI (yeah right!)!

I actually do not mind that the AI sees such things, it should so it can compensate for its lack of .... well... human evil brains ....

I always suspected the fact but I played the same couple turns over and over again just experimenting and I am pretty certain now.

	26-06-2002 15:35									#2
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer Last night I discovered with absolute certainty that the AI "cheats" i.e. knows where you are, your units, etc... The AI was sending LOTS of units towards a city of mine (2 Inf. guarding) then when they reached the city I re loaded from the autosave 2turns back and send forces to the city from a route that they should not be able to see them (I had RR which gave me the ability to pack a lot in the city). Well the AI just turned around and went for another city which I was the least defended in the area. Ok, it could have been a diverting move from the AI (yeah right!)! I actually do not mind that the AI sees such things, it should so it can compensate for its lack of .... well... human evil brains .... I always suspected the fact but I played the same couple turns over and over again just experimenting and I am pretty certain now.

Sounds like you cheated.....

	26-06-2002 16:02									#3
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although i congrat you on discovering this. It is not new. This subject is well covered for in other threads.

You could use this to your advantage if you want to. Open up your core cities and the AI will neglect the border ones.

I personally try to avoid this as i don't think it fair to the AI. For me this is an exploit, but no everyone agrees

	26-06-2002 16:03									#4
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I don't say that behaviour was already in Civ 1, but it was certainly in Civ 2 and SMAC.
But, yeah, it sucks to see the AI to cheat like that.

	26-06-2002 16:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Sounds like you cheated.....

I was just experimenting!

	26-06-2002 16:34									#6
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The AI knows the location of all your units. This one is well known and one of the few real cheats.

	26-06-2002 19:14									#7
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I do not treat AI knowledge of my location as cheating. Since AI is just a computer subroutine, it can't go with instinct like we do; therefore, it must use other mean to help it make the best move...to make the game more challenging and more enjoyable for us. Another way to look at this...for example, if you are 200 lbs, would you prefer to wrestle with just one 50 lbs opponent, four 50 lbs opponents, or eight 50 lbs opponents?

	26-06-2002 21:26									#8
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The AI has Uber Spies - knowing all yer unit placements.

	26-06-2002 21:37									#9
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Please name a strategy game in which the AI doesn't cheat (on at least the more challenging difficulty levels).

A computer game's AI isn't comparable with a human brain in terms of strategic skills. The only advantages the computer has is perfect knowledge of game concepts, rules, etc. and the possibility to cheat.

	27-06-2002 00:38									#10
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an unfortunate truth. do you think it could ever be different, though? will AI programmers ever be able to develop an AI that doesnt need to cheat at complicated strategy games?

	27-06-2002 02:24									#11
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quote: Originally posted by SomeOneElse an unfortunate truth. do you think it could ever be different, though? will AI programmers ever be able to develop an AI that doesnt need to cheat at complicated strategy games?

IMHO not for many long years i'm affraid

but look how it i'mproved in the last 10 years ( civ1 ---> Civ3). So i guess ther's hope afterall

Someone will respond to this. I wonder who

	27-06-2002 03:24									#12
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Actually Ive found at times you can use the AI's knowledge of your information to your advantage. Corralling the huge AI armies one direction instead of another. Its kinda fun.

	27-06-2002 04:38									#13
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quote: Originally posted by mwaf Please name a strategy game in which the AI doesn't cheat (on at least the more challenging difficulty levels).

Space Empires IV Gold

	27-06-2002 04:45									#14
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Yes it is well know that the AI cheats without it the AI would be truly useless. The AI will never be equal to a human player and that is why so many of us were so deeply dissappointed that MP wasn't included.

Hopefully, PtW's version of MP will be at least as good as Civ2 MP or CTP2 MP.

	27-06-2002 05:14									#15
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I use this as an a way to trap the AI. I don't leave any city open but keep my borders well protected. Once I see a large army heading towards my border I increase the numbers at the border and leave no way for the approaching army to get through. Obviously they were coming for me and soon enough declare war on me. Much better than me declaring war on them. Then use my large stack of border units to destroy their units, usually very large army, and start taking as many cities as I can.

	27-06-2002 13:18									#16
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Same deal happened to me.

I had to raze a city in the Industrial era to prevent that stupid Culture Flipping crap.

Before even I could get a settler there, a rival civ's transport appeared with settler and some military right on those open tiles near the coast.

Cheat Number One: the AI immediately knew about the open tiles.

Cheat Number Two: the AI got a freebie settler, which they had to in order to get it there that fast.

And here is cheat number three. . .

I went back to autosave to test the AI. I put units on all those coastal hexes. Result? The transport NEVER SHOWED UP!

Of course the AI cheats. And the above was at Regent!

	27-06-2002 14:03									#17
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Note:

I did not say that I do not like t he game because of it! I actually am in love with the game (as with 1 & 2) , just ask my wife! I just noted the fact because this was the first time I caught the AI cold handed .

Oh, by the way Coracle I must admit that the concept of cultural flipping may be a bit crudely implemented in the game but I am all for it. Don't you just get tired of complaining about the same thing over and over and over again! There are a whole lot better things to do or play in this world

Firaxis could refine this feature a bit, i.e. give us the option to turn it on or off, warn us before the city flips, all units should not go puff, etc. But otherwise I do like especially because it prevents me for coming in and cleaning house as in Civ 2. At precisely that moment it was only a matter of time before you won the game in Civ 2. But not here, here you have to heed yourself and plan much better.

	27-06-2002 22:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Cheat Number Two: the AI got a freebie settler, which they had to in order to get it there that fast.

I frequently keep settlers handy in times of war (whether I'm involved or not). I've noticed that the AI does this as well (I have checked my military advisor reports after espionage and seen some AI civs with 3 and 4 settlers -- this when no free land is available).

Catt

	28-06-2002 02:02									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The AI knows the location of all your units. This one is well known and one of the few real cheats.

hi ,

, any proof to that , ....

have a nice day

	28-06-2002 02:14									#20
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the AI is known to cheat who needs proof?

	28-06-2002 02:17									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us the AI is known to cheat who needs proof?

hi ,

specific proof on this or that cheat might help to fix it , ...
or to bypass it , .....

have a nice day

	28-06-2002 02:21									#22
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it cheat so it can stand half a chance against a person. if we "fix" it the game would suck.

	28-06-2002 02:57									#23
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 but look how it i'mproved in the last 10 years ( civ1 ---> Civ3). So i guess ther's hope afterall Someone will respond to this. I wonder who

quote: originally posted be CORACLE Same deal happened to me. I had to raze a city in the Industrial era to prevent that stupid Culture Flipping crap. Before even I could get a settler there, a rival civ's transport appeared with settler and some military right on those open tiles near the coast. Cheat Number One: the AI immediately knew about the open tiles. Cheat Number Two: the AI got a freebie settler, which they had to in order to get it there that fast. And here is cheat number three. . . I went back to autosave to test the AI. I put units on all those coastal hexes. Result? The transport NEVER SHOWED UP! Of course the AI cheats. And the above was at Regent!

you need to change your strategie from time to time
You are becoming to predictible. This was to easy

	28-06-2002 03:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by mwaf Please name a strategy game in which the AI doesn't cheat (on at least the more challenging difficulty levels).

I don't think the CtP2 AI cheats. That's one of the main reasons why it sucks.

	28-06-2002 04:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us it cheat so it can stand half a chance against a person. if we "fix" it the game would suck.

hi ,

at least they could tell us , as to what and how it is done , ....

have a nice day

	28-06-2002 05:41									#26
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quote: Originally posted by ShredZ The AI has Uber Spies - knowing all yer unit placements.

I was thinking the same way. Although not really an Uber Spy. But a really good spy depending on the difficulty level. Perhaps Pioneer, you should search for a mole in your civ. I could bet a dolor to a donut there is a spy in your civ.

	29-06-2002 20:31									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I was thinking the same way. Although not really an Uber Spy. But a really good spy depending on the difficulty level. Perhaps Pioneer, you should search for a mole in your civ. I could bet a dolor to a donut there is a spy in your civ.

hi ,

one thing is to do counter intel ones in a while , ..
second , never give the AI your map , but get his when you can , otherwise decline , ...

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 02:46									#28
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hi ,

one way the AI cheats with proof is the "hidden nationality" , give it to a unit , go for a walk , so far so good , but certainly a civ says "hello" to you , ....

play with the attack value a bit , and go for a small battle , the AI will sometimes change his attitude towards you , its like the AI knows to who the "hidden" unit belongs , ....

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 05:45									#29
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quote: Originally posted by panag ... second , never give the AI your map , but get his when you can , otherwise decline , ... ...

I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you.

	30-06-2002 05:49									#30
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , one way the AI cheats with proof is the "hidden nationality" , give it to a unit , go for a walk , so far so good , but certainly a civ says "hello" to you , .... play with the attack value a bit , and go for a small battle , the AI will sometimes change his attitude towards you , its like the AI knows to who the "hidden" unit belongs , .... have a nice day

I think the AI knows who the nationality is of the hidden unit myself. In one of my mods, I set the regular submarine to have hidden nationality. It works, no mil. advisor warning me or anything. But the civ I attack gets mad after a while, and starts to declare war in a while.

Of course this could be due a little bug with hidden subs, their color may be white, but turn on the unit circles and you'll see the color of the nationality.