07-07-2002 10:02									#151
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Amuses the heck out of me.
Kind of remindes me of the Israeli 'massacres' claimed by the piddling Euros.
2000 years ago the Romans could lay waste to an entire city of 20,000 and kill everyone in two days with those weapons. We have modern warplanes and weapons and the best 'massacres' the Israelis and the US can come up with is 40 people?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
When the skys are darkened with B-52s and 100,000 are dead in the space of 1 hour I'll let you know.

	07-07-2002 11:10									#152
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Paiktis, et al.:

I'd like to think that the p*ss*ng match in this thread wouldn't count as intelligent discourse worth defending to the death for a man such as Voltaire.

And once again I see you have no problem grouping all Americans together when you're in one of your trolling moods. This is the umpteenth time you've done it to me and, frankly, it's tiresome. I've tolerated your shtick before, Paiktis, and overlooked the times we've disagreed because there's been other threads where we've had good fun, so to speak.

Suffice to say, I've been heartily disappointed in your reaction to the thread(s) where Greece's own past polices, actions and whatnot have been questioned/trolled. What happened in those threads was no different than the shtick a number of posters put Americans through on a weekly basis. You don't react well to being trolled, Paiktis, yet you have no problem being the perpetrator when it suits you.

You can talk the talk, but cannot walk the walk. You can't take the heat? Get out of the kitchen. If you expect to troll, then expect to be attacked in return. Don't like it? Don't troll. If that's unacceptable, I guess all I can say is, "Tough sh*t."

You sow what you reap, Paiktis. The last few days ... well, it looks like the crop you planted is finally biting your buttocks. Pray they don't go for your balls next.

Finally, do you know why I get so angry with you when you go off the deep end? Example one: When you were receiving threats of some sort from a source on a story you were working on, I felt sorry for you on a *PERSONAL* and *PROFESSIONAL* level and offered advice, which you took seriously, at least insofar as I could tell. Where's that Paiktis now? I don't see him anywhere. All I see is soming trolling caricture who claims to be Paiktis, attacking Americans left and right and getting a helluva kick out of it.

I don't like it. It's worn me down. I guess I still have a lesson to learn when surfing the Internet: NEVER, NEVER form even a casual acquaintanceship with someone else, because they'll just bite you in the ass later 98 percent of the time. Keep that sort of stuff for the flesh-n-blood folks you interact with on a daily basis. Only problem with that is it sure as hell is discouraging when it comes to trying to forge international ties via the Internet.

Gatekeeper

	07-07-2002 12:42									#153
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Fine GateKeeper, I'll stop trolling.

It was a reaction to Dino/Shi BTW

I did appreciate and I do appreciate the help you have given me both on a personal and on a professional level at that particular issue which was indeed most troubling.

If it bothers you my trolling, I stop.

	07-07-2002 13:21									#154
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Paiktis:

Good.

The thing with this trolling business is that it's a vicious circle jerk when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. Chris, Shi, et al. were posting things in response to things that you, SM, et al. had posted in the past. Repeat those steps over and over again and the end result remains the same: ticked off people who may very well have to work together someday in order to achieve a common goal. Don't discount that possibility, not with the way the world is becoming interconnected.

And, hey, I'm not above having a good time, so to speak. It's just that I think 'Poly can be so much better than the schtick I've seen in some of the OT threads lately. Idealistic? Yeah. Attainable? Most of the time, if folks decide to have fun and discuss issues — when they arise — in a responsible manner. That doesn't mean you can't get mad or anything ... just *think* before posting. Self-edit your post after writing it. Delete the insults. Asterisk the cuss words if they must remain to convey one's mood. Re-write portions if they're more rants than thoughts. And, above all, sign off with a "good day" or something.

It works for me *most* of the time. The times it doesn't, I live to regret later.

OK, enough "self-appointed forum conscious" for the time being. I gotta hit the hay for the night.

Gatekeeper

	07-07-2002 13:25									#155
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No, GateKeeper if anyone would do those things it wouldn't be trolling anymore

I think you are underestimating the cathartic value of trolling in internet forum But as I said, since this bothers you, it stops

	07-07-2002 13:39									#156
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Every time I see a thread bashing the US, I see the same pattern :
- Euros talk foul about what the US has badly done.
- Americans (or Yank posers) say it wasn't bad at all, it was good, or at least justified. Some Americans are exceptions.
- Knowing they have done the best thing to do, the Americans say Euros talk foul because they're jealous, given that America is so great.
- Flames become various then.

I'm pretty sure 80% of Americans would defend the unforgivable firebombing of Dresden.

Another thing I find great is the "it's war, it's normal" argument. I don't know if you see this, but that's extremely arrogant : the Americans almost never had war fatalities on their territory (comapred to any other country in the Eurasian world), and when they had, it was considered as an incredible drama the whole world should mourn : Alamo, Pearl Harbour, WTC. (none of them match with the horrors Japanese soldiers did in Nanking).

People living in North America don't know what it is to lose cicilian people because of a war, except for the WTC (face it, for Al Qaeda and those who think alike, there's a war going on against America).
Curiously enough, I didn't hear any American saying "I lost my wife in the WTC, but that's war, that's normal". I don't see why we should tell this to Afghanis.


Paiktis : if you're looking for a troll, create two threads : one saying "civilian deaths in Afghanistan are normal", the other saying "civilian deaths in WTC are normal". You'll face some wrath

	07-07-2002 13:45									#157
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Spiffor,
I think Dresden WAS heinous, but the Germans didn't surrender after that, did they?
I also think that the deaths at the WTC were NOT special, as they were the first attack in a war that was due to come. Therefore, I do not mourn over the loss of 'civilians' in Afganistan unless it was due to error (i.e. dropping food supplies and killing people under them) in which case I think the US should do all it can to make it up to those people it hurt or their survivors.

	07-07-2002 13:51									#158
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It would be impossible to mourn for civilians cia wouldn't it?

You would have to go against your government policies in order to do that.

I think it is sad that you don't feel sorry for civilians killed.

And this is no trolling.

The US goes to countries and kills people who are civilians. You can justify it all you want but I doubt it is chivalrous of you to say that you don't feel sorry.

	07-07-2002 13:58									#159
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Of course I feel sorry. I think killing is ridiculous.
But I am also well aware there are very bad people about in the world. These people do not wear uniforms and do not identify themselves. So many innocents end up dying for nothing. It sucks. But it's reality. I happen to live somewhere that has the country's biggest power nuclear reactor nearby. I have the iodine pills for my kids to prove it. Does it suck? Yes. But I deal with it. The Europeans don't have smart bullets which don't hit civilians anymore than the US does, so get off your high horse and deal with it paiktis22.

	07-07-2002 14:01									#160
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So you feel sorry.
glad you got off your high horse so I can get off mine.

	07-07-2002 14:24									#161
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Of course I feel sorry. I have an eight-year-old and eleven-year-old. I can understand what it would be like to lose a child. But I damned well will not lose mine so some ******* can make a political or religious point. I'll take their children first if it is the only way. Deal with that.

	07-07-2002 14:29									#162
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A political or religious point, right...

So if you overthrow a democracy somewhere in Latin America and someone retaliates at you it is a political or religious statement?

Get real.

And that man has as much the right to protect his children as you do.

	07-07-2002 14:36									#163
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I agree paiktis22.
I think the US government should leave those people alone. It's hubris that got us in there, but it has to be common sense that gets out, not the status quo.

	07-07-2002 14:39									#164
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edit: ok (just read your reply)

	07-07-2002 14:42									#165
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I wouldn't call it hybris though. Hybris is to provoke the Gods. I doubt you did something like that. Besides the price for Hybris is Nemesis and I doubt anyone would want that for you

	07-07-2002 14:45									#166
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If I remember right (improbable on 6 shots of tequila) it will involve much rock pushing.
See, I was right. That's Narcissist by my recollection. What was the punishment for excess pride?

	07-07-2002 14:53									#167
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Nemesis is the price for Hybris which is in fact excess pride or excess success in such a point that it offends the Gods who then proceed in destroying you utterly.

But I doubt you did that, you forwarded your interests in an inhumane way, and you are not the only ones or the worse in doing that unfortunately.



Narcissism is the excess admiration of your self's beauty.

Narcissus spent his days gazing and admiring his reflexion on a serene lake.

So much was his admiration for himself that he lowered his head to kiss his own reflexion on the water.

He lost his step and drawn.

	07-07-2002 14:54									#168
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(Greek mythology is so cheery )

	07-07-2002 14:59									#169
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Unfortuantely inhumane is a relative term. In a country where everyone fights for necessities, the US is a convenient target of hatred (rightly or wrongly). This creates an atmosphere of hatred reinforced by the teachings of the government.
This thereby causes much of the sorrow inflicted on civilians.