09-07-2002 03:30									#91
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DS9 is the only ST series I've ever really gotten into, so I have to say Sisko.

	09-07-2002 03:34									#92
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quote: all the races had a rich culture and many contradictions and internal conflicts, things races in ST lack utterly. The only race that got any worthwhile treatment were the Bajorians, due to DS9's format.

**cough**Klingons**cough**

	09-07-2002 03:35									#93
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I must say that the whole 2 dimensional thing goes for ST alien species too- which is why B5 was better: all the races had a rich culture and many contradictions and internal conflicts, things races in ST lack utterly. The only race that got any worthwhile treatment were the Bajorians, due to DS9's format.

Well, compared to B5 every ST character is pretty weak character wise. But there was some 'character moments' with The romulans, klingons and ferengi and vulcans as well.

	09-07-2002 03:36									#94
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What about the people of Kataan?

	09-07-2002 03:44									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X He was? I must have missed that episode...

It is mentioned in Season VIII, episode 2 or 3.

	09-07-2002 03:52									#96
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OK! Those episodes I´ve only watched 5 or 6 times, I´ll pay attention next time I watch them

	09-07-2002 03:54									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse It is mentioned in Season VIII, episode 2 or 3.

He didn't work his way up. He IS the doughnut boy masquerading as the captain.

"If it ever comes out that I'm really Jimmy the doughnut boy I'm finished!"

	09-07-2002 03:54									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba What about the people of Kataan?

Kataan?

	09-07-2002 03:55									#99
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I'm in the majority here. Picard by a mile.

	09-07-2002 03:57									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba He didn't work his way up. He IS the doughnut boy masquerading as the captain. "If it ever comes out that I'm really Jimmy the doughnut boy I'm finished!"

I didn't say he worked his way up.

And he is still called Captain, thus making him a Captain.

	09-07-2002 04:06									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Seriously, don't you think Hollister is extremely cunning? I mean, he was originally a donut boy and was able to make his way up to Captain.

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse I didn't say he worked his way up. And he is still called Captain, thus making him a Captain.

No cause there's SUCH a difference in meaning betweening making one's way up and working one's up

	09-07-2002 04:08									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Kataan?

*Sigh*

The Inner Light? Hello!

	09-07-2002 04:40									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba No cause there's SUCH a difference in meaning betweening making one's way up and working one's up

I'm just saying that I wasn't implying that he did it on his own merit, but did it cunningly.

	09-07-2002 04:43									#104
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Faboba, I can´t keep every episode in my head. Now can I ? Even if it was a particulary good one...

	09-07-2002 05:06									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba I think I'll be proven correct when the last series is total and complete crap.

B5 crap?

KI -

Forum rules prohibit death threats.

Forum rules prohibit death threats.

Forum rules prohibit death threats...

	09-07-2002 05:17									#106
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B5 was alright. It was a novelty really, like FS is now. Good enough to last a few seasons, some fresh new ideas, but not big enough to carry a big francise. Star Trek and Star Wars may have lesser quality per episode/film (on average), but have more of them. Of course, quantity isn't better than quality, but still. You can watch B5 for 8 years, and then you've seen it all. Star Trek has been running (with some pauses) for 35 years. 25 seasons of eps, and 9 movies.

And yeah, Enterprise sucks. Voyager mostly sucked too. It's a shame really. After the end of DS9, everything went downhill quickly.

	09-07-2002 05:43									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Picard was the best captain, but DS9 was the best show.

You are correct sir! I always liked Kirk and Cisco mind you, but Picard acted more like a Captain. Kirk always beamed the entire chain of command down onto dangerous planets, and they were often captured (and their security details killed). That's not good leadership. Cisco was hampered by the fact that he was more of a port Governor than a ship Captain, which detracts from the potential for action. One thing I have always appreciated in the 3 Star Trek shows that I have watched is the capability shown by the writers and actors to display humorous scenes and episodes. A mix of comedy and drama is often more powerful and entertaining than one or the other alone, and most actors concede that comedic acting is more difficult.

	09-07-2002 05:46									#108
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Kirk!!!!!! William Shatner was always on the ball. He knew everything about the enterprise. He was the best


*Kirk to enterprise, beam me up*

	09-07-2002 06:43									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia B5 crap? KI - Forum rules prohibit death threats. Forum rules prohibit death threats. Forum rules prohibit death threats...

Did I say it was crap? No... not as such.

Babylon 5 was fantastic. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The first series ( or two? ) was a little weak with Sinclair in charge but when they brought Sheridan in the show really took off. It was electric right up until the shadow war.

The shadow war delivered in every way that the dominion war did not. And when the shadows and the vorlorns lefts with the other ancients it was like a televisual orgasm. The series had climaxed.

The next series was... quite good but it was pillow talk. The 'Garibaldi doing his own thing' seemed like a weak take on the doctor's 'walk to find himself'. I didn't like it, it took up much to much time and was poor television. You could see that, after the... sheer incredible, awe shattering spectacle of the shadow war the show was trying desperately to deliver.

And when they unified earth and overthrew preisdent Clarck I'd say they succeeded. They managed to deliver another climax to the series.

But it was a FINAL one. They had unified the GALAXY. They had done away with the older races. They were alone and space was theirs. They had created a galactic utopia. All was good and the series had ended on the highest of high notes in a way only rivalled by Space Above and Beyond's powerful culmination.

And then they got money for a new series. Greed prevailed and what followed was the weakest, most cruel bastardisation of a show ever commited. None of the subsequent versions of Babylon 5 ( Either the following season(s) of the show itself, or the films or the spin off ) have been enjoyable or, more importantly, anywhere near the quality of B5 in the good old days.

JS sold out. Babylon 5 should have ended after the creation of the alliance. Everyone knows this. It would have been a noble and wonderful way to end it. An unbeatable end to a fantastic show.

So if they sell out Enterprise the same way ( not that it's particularly special at the moment ) then we'll know it is part of the B5 franchise....

	09-07-2002 06:44									#110
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Kirk!!!!!! William Shatner was always on the ball. He knew everything about the enterprise. He was the best *Kirk to enterprise, beam me up*

You're thinking of Scotty - the Scot from Canada.

"I know this ship like the back of my hand" *CLUNK*

	09-07-2002 06:48									#111
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Faboba, I see your point. Crusade was disgusting. Good thing then that I didn't threaten to kill you.

	09-07-2002 06:53									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Faboba, I see your point. Crusade was disgusting. Good thing then that I didn't threaten to kill you.

I think I've proven that my love of B5 is genuine even if I'd utterly disillusioned with the way that either JS or the people higher up didn't do right by way of the series.

	09-07-2002 15:40									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus B5 was alright. It was a novelty really, like FS is now. Good enough to last a few seasons, some fresh new ideas, but not big enough to carry a big francise. Star Trek and Star Wars may have lesser quality per episode/film (on average), but have more of them. Of course, quantity isn't better than quality, but still. You can watch B5 for 8 years, and then you've seen it all. Star Trek has been running (with some pauses) for 35 years. 25 seasons of eps, and 9 movies. And yeah, Enterprise sucks. Voyager mostly sucked too. It's a shame really. After the end of DS9, everything went downhill quickly.

OK, So ST has been on the air for 35 years, has that made the show better?

Let´s see in the first series they went on a 5 year mission exploring strange new worlds and new civilizations and boldy going where mankind had never gone before.

In the second series they go on another 5 year mission exploring strange new worlds and new civilizations and boldly going where mankind had never gone before (but with better actors...)

In the third series they are on a space station, not so much on a 5 year mission. But still exploring strange new worlds and (quite boldly) going where mankind had never gone before (ie the gamma quadrant).

Up to this point I can agree that ST was 'innovative'

In the fourth series however they had to rely on an nearly omnipotent being to kickstart the series. Let´s place them where mankind has never gone before (the delta quadrant) and on their bold 7 season way home let them explore strange new worlds and new civilizations.

In the fifth series they can really boldly go where no man has gone before, since they are in fact the first ones to do it...

You see a pattern forming here?

The watchability of ST declines quite rapidly after DS9. ST is also notorious for sticking in crap episodes just to fill the quota of 26 episodes/season.

B5 is in that sense 'condensed', not a single episode goes by without something to add to the story as a whole. B5 never runs empty... There lies the watchability of B5. It´s really a long movie divided into small episodes.

And good movies you can watch several times

	09-07-2002 15:54									#114
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my favorite captin is Merryl Stubing


http://www.dvsgames.com/~dvs/funny/...ek/loveboat.htm

	09-07-2002 15:55									#115
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Faboba, in all fairness. JMS had originally planned the series to be 5 seasons. Somewhere along the line the funding ran out (I don´t know why) and he was forced to cut the series short by a season, thus the rather crappy season 4 ending ('Deconstruction of falling stars').

Season 5 was an 'appendix' that elaborated on some questions left unanswered in the previous ones as well as tie up a few loose ends. Ít was not as good as the previous ones, but it still kicks the ass of anything else out there.

The movies are quite unneccesary, from a story contributing point of view, but they still manage to deliver some good B5 action. A B5 junkie like myself must have his fix, right?

'Crusader' I haven´t seen (I´m in seroius withdrawal here... ) I´m waiting for TV3 or Kanal 5 to buy them But I hear they are pretty below par

	09-07-2002 16:14									#116
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quote: You see a pattern forming here?

Of course! But Star Trek is all about going where no man has gone before. It's the main theme of the francise. You can't just do away with it cause it isn't new anymore.

quote: The watchability of ST declines quite rapidly after DS9

That's what I said.

Some Voyager eps were alright, but most were not. Enterprise is even worse, but for now I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. It's their first season after all. B5s, DS9s, TNGs and VOYs first seasons all sucked (TOS being the sole exception in which the first season was the best). Maybe it will pick up.

But right now, Enterprise totally sucks. Only 3 out of 26 episodes were worth watching, and that must be an all time low. The stories are predictable and stupid, the acting and casting is awful. Not to mention the changes in continuity, which are as bad in Enterprise as they were in TOS. And then there is the "temporal cold war". Bad idea, very bad idea. They should focus on what the Alpha Quadrant was like in the pre-Kirk days. Instead of that, they have some big storyline about invaders from the 31st (or whatever) century, and the good timetravelers to stop them. Sorta TimeCop in the future. This is taking the focus away from the "present" situation, which is sad. Also, this gives them a good excuse to **** up the continuity some more. I doubt we'll see the Earth-Romulan war.

	09-07-2002 16:22									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Of course! But Star Trek is all about going where no man has gone before. It's the main theme of the francise. You can't just do away with it cause it isn't new anymore.

No God forbid that they change a worn out concept. Progress? Hmmpff! We can´t have that...

And I haven´t even bothered with 'Enterprise'

	09-07-2002 16:28									#118
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Farscape is too silly for me, too childish... ST is alright, so is B5