09-07-2002 15:57									#61
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I never doubted you're 10% Greek. But you always have to be aware of the fact that the rest is 40% Turkish and 50% Slav

	09-07-2002 16:43									#62
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based on your analysis on the egyptians?

	09-07-2002 16:49									#63
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Estimated.

	09-07-2002 16:55									#64
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well the estimations of me and my entire family of 286 parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and cousins show that we are descendants of Alexander the Great. since we're more than you, we win

	09-07-2002 17:24									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "how they stood against the Ottomans so Europe wouldn't fall" [nationalist mode] They got overrun. We stopped the Turks. And you all should be thaaaaaankful. Without us you'd all be speaking turkish now. Where's that gratitude ? Bring it on! [/nationalist mode]

If not for Lithuanians, you all would speak mongolian now

	09-07-2002 17:50									#66
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If not for wild raging german hordes, you'd all be speaking some degenerated form of Latin that bears an eery resemblance to FRENCH!

Now that should make the yanks grateful....

	09-07-2002 17:51									#67
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talking about troop moral in WW1

General: The Americans are joining the war!
Blackadder: How is that going to help troop moral?

	09-07-2002 18:17									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "2) the arrogance of power" Which is funny, because that power is quite limited. Only your rightwing and our leftwing nuts seem to believe it is overwhelming.

Define power and how you measure it.

	09-07-2002 18:25									#69
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Military: Can destroy 3rd and 4th rate powers. Serious military and political problems against 2nd rate powers. Imperial overstretch.

Economy: 20-25 % of global GDP. Largely deindustrialized. Dependent on foreign capital. On trade disputes stalemate with the EU.

Politics: Dysfunctional political system. Erratic foreign policy, enjoys little respect and faith in diplomatic terms.

The overall mix still gives the strongest power, but with a lot of serious limitations.

	09-07-2002 18:29									#70
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What would Apolyton do without the always rational and even tempered Roland?

All Praise The Uberbear !

	09-07-2002 18:29									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The one thing I think is very true is that the Euro's are in love with sanctions, while the US has grown disillusioned with them. I think they may work with democracies, ala South Africa.

democracies? When 15% of the people vote that's not a democracy.

	09-07-2002 18:32									#72
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South Africa wasn't a democracy back then.

	09-07-2002 18:56									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Military: Can destroy 3rd and 4th rate powers. Serious military and political problems against 2nd rate powers. Imperial overstretch.

1) Imperial overstretch isn't a problem, Roland. Currently we spend less, percentage wise, on the military than we have for most of the past half century.

2) How are you classifing countries as 2nd, 3rd, & 4th rate powers?

quote: Economy: 20-25 % of global GDP. Largely deindustrialized. Dependent on foreign capital. On trade disputes stalemate with the EU.

1) Largely deindustrialized? Explain.
2) Given that no country on earth is autarkic, how is the US appetite for foreign capital a serious problem or even a problem at all.

quote: Politics: Dysfunctional political system. Erratic foreign policy, enjoys little respect and faith in diplomatic terms.

What do you mean by dysfunctional political system?

	09-07-2002 19:06									#74
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"Imperial overstretch isn't a problem, Roland."

It is. You support a world wide infrastructure and have your nose in every pie. Exactly because of the relatively low spending levels this net is quite weak - it just looks good while a) allies are there, and b) potential enemies are weak.

"How are you classifing countries as 2nd, 3rd, & 4th rate powers?"

We could take military spending as a starter.

I: US: 300 billion

II: China/Japan/UK/France/Germany/Russia/India: 25-50 (100?)

Etc.

"Largely deindustrialized? Explain."

Your economy is mostly services, and your trade deficit in goods is atrocious.

"Given that no country on earth is autarkic, how is the US appetite for foreign capital a serious problem or even a problem at all."

Simple. If you go on like that, your capital stock is owned by foreigners and at least 20 % of national income go to foreigners. Impact on currency, savings, investment etc.

"What do you mean by dysfunctional political system?"

Corruption, Chaos, Delusion.

	09-07-2002 19:12									#75
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Dino is pretending he didnt notice my answer...

	09-07-2002 19:13									#76
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dino daoesnt notice anything he isnt particularly strong in the noticing business

	09-07-2002 19:44									#77
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Roland:

quote: But why then do virtually all americans piss off everyone else by constantly (rightfully or wrongly) telling them how much they suck compared to the US ?

Gee, thanks for generalizing. "Virtually all Americans" huh? I beg to differ. "Obnoxious 'News' Networks and Politicians" maybe. I seriously doubt you hear much from the average American (whoever that is). But the crap you do hear has to do with the arrogance of power I was talking about.

I won't get into the pissing contest over how strong our army/economy/whatever is. I'll leave that to you and Dino. Suffice it to say that, righly or wrongly, many Americans think our country is powerful. That power, real or imagined, goes to people's heads.

-Arrian
wondering why he bothered to post something serious.

	09-07-2002 19:48									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I know the history, Mark. The Athenians and Spartans were the ones responsible for the defeat of the Persians, not the Macedonians. So why are you gloating about the Persian Wars when your ancestors had nothing to do with thier conclusion?

the ones who lead the rest of the greeks in the definite victory over Persia were the macedonians



the first sucessful repulsion of Persia created propably for the first time the notion of the nation.

*It was not a victory of Athens but of all of Hellas*

	09-07-2002 19:50									#79
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ecthelinaki is trolling as always. no need replaying.

Roland is trolling propably because he thinks calling us slavs embarrases us.

we are not racist as he is

we are simply greeks.


but we do have a common word with the slavs.

Poutsa.

	09-07-2002 19:52									#80
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"Gee, thanks for generalizing."

Ok, maybe it is a professional problems. The most bizarre thing I've seen was a US prof who critisized the way I wrote a "7" in a phone number as wrong because "it's not american". And that's not a joke, nor was it one on his side.
So apart from "Obnoxious 'News' Networks and Politicians" it's also academics. And the corporate clowns. And ordinary Americans complaining about our highways. Or about our labour laws (of which he of course didn't have a freakin' clue). Etc.

Ok, unfair to generalize it. But I haven't seen an even remotely similar behaviour from any other nationality.

	09-07-2002 19:55									#81
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"Roland is trolling propably because he thinks calling us slavs embarrases us."

Not at all. It's just that your claim on ancient Greece and denial of the slavic element amuses me.

If I had to state a number I'd say Austrians are 30-50 % slavic in origin. Particularly Carinthians.

	09-07-2002 19:56									#82
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come on, you can try harder than that.

anything that says austrians are below 90% slavs is racist

	09-07-2002 19:59									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Roland And ordinary Americans complaining about our highways.

Have they driven on theirs?

	09-07-2002 19:59									#84
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Apart from the 10 % germanic, there's also celtic, italian, illyric and in certain regions huns (not the Kraut version, the real ones).

So sorry, the slavic element has to share its predominance with many others.

	09-07-2002 20:01									#85
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bullkaka

italian? you're mixing the time periods.

and i always knew you were albanians in reality.

bah, you're just pissed your grandpa wasn't named plato

	09-07-2002 20:03									#86
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quote: And ordinary Americans complaining about our highways. Or about our labour laws (of which he of course didn't have a freakin' clue). Etc.

As if this couldn't be reversed? Ordinary Europeans criticize X, Y and Z American things (lets say... Capitol Punishment, our electoral system and our public schools). People just love to criticize, don't they? My point was that some of the "USA is better than Europe" crap on these forums comes from the "Europe is better than the US" crap, of which some comes from the "USA is better than Europe" crap...

Bah.

-Arrian

	09-07-2002 20:10									#87
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"Have they driven on theirs?"

No idea. I asked something like "That's why you have to crawl on your highways, right?"

"italian? you're mixing the time periods....
bah, you're just pissed your grandpa wasn't named plato"

Oddly enough, my grandpa's name was Julius.....

"As if this couldn't be reversed?"

Sure. But I haven't seen this kind of pissing contest with any other nation. So either we have sorted you out for that, or it is something about you....

Maybe we should ask Canada about it....

	09-07-2002 20:12									#88
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quote: So either we have sorted you out for that, or it is something about you....

Well, clearly we get the impression that it's the former. You think it's the latter. Whatever. Blame Canada. I'm done with this conversation.

-Arrian

	09-07-2002 20:13									#89
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yeah but merely being named julius wasnt good enough it seems

	09-07-2002 20:14									#90
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His full name was Julius Clemens.

No idea why.