13-07-2002 20:40									#31
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Robber Baron, that 'marine' setting is for the land unit, not the boat!

	14-07-2002 22:54									#32
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Something useful?: When Norwegian Vikings first raided the European coast in the 8th century AD, their leaders were not kings, princes or jarls, but a middle rank of warrior known as the hersir. At this time the hersir was typically an independent landowner or local chieftain. Viking warriors can be called "Huscarls, Anglo-Saxons can be called "Fyrdmen".

	15-07-2002 05:13									#33
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what do you think are the Berserker's stats?
I would make it replace swordsman, 3/2/2 and/or "marine" ability. Alternatively, 4/2/1, same as the Immortals.

	15-07-2002 05:43									#34
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6/1/2 Suicide charge unit? Berserkers were not the most common Vikings...

	15-07-2002 05:50									#35
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"Hirdmen" were the Jarl or Kings personal guard. Hmm... could have been a UU. Also the "Leidang" was a Viking mobilization force consisting of many warriors with longships... Like in the civ2 addon-scenario. Those were quite uniqe!

A "Berserk" drank a mixture of piss and musherooms, to enter his psychedelic fury... Very uniqe indeed. Also a bit icky.

	15-07-2002 06:53									#36
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quote: A "Berserk" drank a mixture of piss and musherooms, to enter his psychedelic fury... Very uniqe indeed. Also a bit icky.

What do you mean, "icky"? A friend of mine mixes milk and orange juice, now that's icky.
Instead of Iron, the Berserkers should require a new resource, Magic Mushrooms

	15-07-2002 10:10									#37
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"Fleinsopp" should be the name of the magic mushroom resource.
I have the historical correct Unit requirements here:

Berserker
--------------
discovered tech: Ravaging Tactics.
resource: Pissbrew & Fleinsopp
obsolete: Violent Theology

	15-07-2002 12:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf what do you think are the Berserker's stats? I would make it replace swordsman, 3/2/2 and/or "marine" ability. Alternatively, 4/2/1, same as the Immortals.

I think it should replace the swordsmen as a 3/2/2. Not sure about the marine ability...but what the hay! Throw that in there too!

	15-07-2002 15:33									#39
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quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire Robber Baron, that 'marine' setting is for the land unit, not the boat!

Yeah, I know. I guess I was messing around with the whole structure of unit type more than is wise. It just seemed like a cool idea.

	17-07-2002 05:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by snuggs No way. What people think when they think of Vikings may be ravished maidens and burning monasteries but only Commercial - Expansionist describes the people that shipped silver from Turkestan to Ireland, walrus ivory from the White Sea to North Africa, opened up the North Sea and the trade route round the North Cape, penetrated the Russian rivers, introduced currency and urbanism to Ireland, Scotland, Russia and the Baltic lands... and so on ad nauseam. Militaristic implies a heavily-regimented society geared towards all-engulfing war, not the classic Viking culture of independent mercenary bands and locally-mounted raiding expeditions.

I agree; I'm sick of my ancestors being called barbarians. I think that the Vikings will be Expansionist and Comercial. Heck, the Norwegians discovered N. America; history books put too much emphasis on columbus and say that the good evidence that shows that Scandinavians were exploring the Great Lakes area, like a Viking longsword from the 1300's near my small town or the Kenningson Runestone, are fakes! Trust me, that longsword isn't fake!!!

	17-07-2002 07:54									#41
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The problem with the Vikings being Expantionist is that while it may fit them historicly in the real world, scouts & better barbarian relations just doesn't fit them.

As for the Berserker's stats, it'll probaly be anphibious & either 4 attack, or nothing at all. 2 movement doesn't fit since they weren't nessicarily fast.

	17-07-2002 17:22									#42
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quote: Trust me, that longsword isn't fake!!!

link?

the Newport Tower in Rhode Island is also likely to have been built by the norse.

	21-07-2002 20:44									#43
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I'm crossing my fingers for the Viking UU to be a fast attack submarine

	31-07-2002 17:05									#44
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what else do we know about the vikings? Leader, cities, abilities &c? Nothing yet?

	31-07-2002 19:11									#45
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Longboat should definitely be the UU. It would allow them to explore, settle, and raid far off areas which is more historically accurate. (if you didn't trade with them they'd just come back and haul it off for free)

Should have the ability to cross sea tiles, maybe ocean tiles without sinking and +1 movement.

	02-08-2002 04:27									#46
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The leader should be Canute the Mighty (Knud den mektige)!

He was king of Denmark, Norway, Sweden and England. Now That`s a kingdom!

Ì saw Eric Bloodaxe was an option. Well, he was the son of Harald Luva and was king in Norway a coupple of years before he was chased to Northumbria, but it is no way the leader Canute (Knud) was.

Rollo the Ganger was also a minor leader (though he was Norwegian ), and is known for leading a band of danes settling in northern France. It`s not enough to compete with Canute.

	02-08-2002 04:58									#47
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The problem with having a transport ship as a unique unit, is that it is unlikely that it triggers a Golden Age.

	02-08-2002 05:50									#48
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I think that the Vikings should be expansionist and commercial. If you look at their history, they spent much more time as economic imperialists than as conquerors... they established vast trading networks, and the raids were really only a portion of their existence.

Furthermore, I think that the Viking Longship should be their UU with not an extra movement point, but rather the ability to cross into Sea squares. Over-powered? Perhaps, but I am a firm believer that the special units need more variety and should give the player UNIQUE edges... not just military ones.

With the ability to go into seas, a Longship on an island map would allow the Vikings to plant cities on every isolated isle and establish overseas connections faster than any other civ. On a continental or Pangea map, the benefits of the Longship are markedly less.

I think that America, rather than the F-15, should have a unit like a Pioneer that would maybe have an extra movement point but would be wheeled, and might have a defense point or two? This would give a land expander and and a sea expander.

Another idea I've been toying with is maybe a "squatter" unit... a UU settler with a hidden nationality that can just plant new cities right in the middle of somebody else's empire... devious, isn't it? Of course, it would be a constant target for the AI...

Anyway, just a few thoughts about the Vikings and beyond.

	03-08-2002 15:58									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Athelstane Ì saw Eric Bloodaxe was an option. Well, he was the son of Harald Luva and was king in Norway a coupple of years before he was chased to Northumbria, but it is no way the leader Canute (Knud) was.

Oh I agree, I only suggested Bloodaxe as preferable to Erik the Red, a ludicrous choice. If the public need a psycho to lead the Vikings, Bloodaxe is that psycho. But Canute is the staringly obvious choice. What's more, he was that rare thing, a diplomat, administrator and conqueror as well as being relatively cultured, so he 'suits' any player temperament (unlike Gandhi).

	04-08-2002 04:32									#50
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Canute would be the best choice, but I am afraid it will be Bressus or Brennus or whatever his name is. I saw it somewhere on some Firaxis info.

	05-08-2002 01:50									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus Canute would be the best choice, but I am afraid it will be Bressus or Brennus or whatever his name is. I saw it somewhere on some Firaxis info.

No, Brennus will be the leader of the Celts/Gauls.

The Viking UU should definitely be the Longboat. The Viking ships were fast, narrow and light, but could be heavily loaded compared to their size. So it should replace the caravel, have 1 or 2 + movement, should carry one additional unit and maybe be able to cross sea...

The leader should probably be Knud (Canute) like in civ2.

	05-08-2002 03:19									#52
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It should be Berserker, with amphious special ability.

	06-08-2002 04:35									#53
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How about this for the vikings:


Longboat - 2/1/3 ship with no transport ability, but it can be sacrificed to found a city on a coastal square.

And/Or

Huskarl - 3/2/1 or 4/2/1 swordsman with amphibious assault.

I think this would lead to many coastal settlements and raids for the Vikings. The downside (to me) is that the units would be less useful in pangea and continental maps (though the huskarl is pretty decent)

	06-08-2002 18:34									#54
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The Berserker could be 3/2/1 and have the Marine and All as Road abilities.

What is a huskarl?

	06-08-2002 21:33									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Optimizer The Berserker could be 3/2/1 and have the Marine and All as Road abilities. What is a huskarl?

If you look at the first posts in this thread, it explains it much better than I could

	06-08-2002 22:37									#56
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Kind of mid-medieval Anglo-Scandinavian elite royal bodyguard, heavy swordsmen raised as a permanent force and with absolute loyalty to the king's person. The Scandinavian kings acquired them in the C10 and Canute introduced them to the Anglo-Saxon order of battle where they remained the best infantry in all Europe until Bastard Bill destroyed this country forever.

	09-08-2002 02:29									#57
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I think the bezerker will be an upgraded medieval infrantry. They will be either 5/2/1 or 4/3/1. 5/2/1 seems more likely because Knights are 4/3/1 and firaxis wont have 2 units with the same stats. But then again, they might think that it will be too strong.

	09-08-2002 02:31									#58
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It will probably cost 40 or 50 shields.

	10-08-2002 15:32									#59
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hi ,

, ...

they should have a second UU , they should have a warrior with marine abilities , and a ship , that would transport lets say ONLY that unit , no settlers or workers , that ship should also be cheap , ...

have a nice day

	10-08-2002 16:45									#60
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That would be nice, but a huge departure from the current rules. It has to be one or the other given the constraints of the game system.