12-07-2002 20:40									#31
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*raises from the wheelchair*...

IT IS ALIVE

	12-07-2002 20:46									#32
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According to article 5 of the NATO treaty, an attack on one member state can be deemed to constitute an attack on the entire alliance - as seen in the aftermath of September 11. So... maybe we shall all soon have cheap figs and oranges.

Wait, they're already cheap.

	12-07-2002 20:51									#33
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Is this a scrum for drilling rights?

	12-07-2002 20:53									#34
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I am actually suprised at the reserved responce of the spanish government.


Maroco occupied a part of its land and Spain just expresses its discomfort...

I will be following this case very closely.

	12-07-2002 20:53									#35
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I think it's a decoy.

In reality, they're secretly staging an amphibious assault on Switzerland.

	12-07-2002 20:54									#36
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More likely they are sick of having Spain still hold a peice of Moroccan territory, especially so close to their mainland. If Spain can demand Gibraltar back, the Moroccans can take this little rock back.

	12-07-2002 20:56									#37
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I find it sick, sick, sick if even one human life is lost over this.

	12-07-2002 20:58									#38
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Quite a turnaround there paiktis. I thought you said they should reclaim it as soon as possible.

But after all these are Moroccans, not Turks, so they'll of course have to be gentle.

	12-07-2002 20:58									#39
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I can agree with you there. It's a rock the size of a football field.

	12-07-2002 21:08									#40
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Well Winston, things are not simple.

In the Aegean case Greece had to pull whatever military weight has had because there were far more fareaching implications than the little islet.

If the Turks claimed it, that would mean they could begin claim hundrends of other islets all over the teritorial water with Turkey. (which Turkey does not recognise but it has to be made to respect it).

So it would certaintly have been war if Turkey didnt leave the islet alone. (dont forget Cyprus also, she's proven to be capable of deciding to try and capture other countries' territories by force)


In the case of Spain, if this is only about this one small islet without any other territorial claims or dangers then yes I think it would be sick to have even one human being die for it.

But I dont know all the facts about the case of Spain/Maroco.

	12-07-2002 21:19									#41
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200 m from Morrocco's coast? Did the troops wade out to it or was a boat actually necessary?

	12-07-2002 23:08									#42
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I think they had a boat.

Spanish coast guard was sent away.

chegitz - the thread title is a laugh

	12-07-2002 23:18									#43
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quote: Spanish coast guard was sent away.

oh boy, that won't look good on his resume,
"July 2002: Lost small island to Morrocco"

	12-07-2002 23:27									#44
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not like that

They sent a boat there, some coast guard boat. The officer politely asked the intruders to leave, and the Moroccan officer threatened to take use of weapons. The coast guard left and alarmed the military.

	13-07-2002 00:21									#45
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I'm pretty sure the Spanish military was alarmed when they were told they were defeated by the Morroccans without a shot fired.

Can you imagine the conversation? "But they had a gun, sir! I think they were serious about using it, too!" The generals must be chewing on their medals thinking about it.

	13-07-2002 00:24									#46
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Err, why is everybody assuming Marocans are so tough?

Or is it again some easy bashing this time of Spain by redchekies?

Does Maroco has some sort of good military? I dont know I'm asking.

IMO the worse in an escalating conflict would be bombs exploding in Madrid from radical Marocans

	13-07-2002 00:28									#47
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Interesting times we live in.

Maybe the Moroccans are making a second attempt at Al-Andalus.

	13-07-2002 00:28									#48
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I don't think the Morroccans are tough. That is why it's funny to imagine the reaction of the Spanish military leaders when they learned that they had lost territory to Morrocco without a shot fired.

"You mean you just left!?!?"

"But they told me to, sir!"

"WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY NO?!?!?!?!"

	13-07-2002 00:41									#49
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heh, i guess it is ok to joke if there is no real danger.

i find it to be difficult to do so though cause around here, that sort of behavior from Maroco (if it were Turkey) would have led to instant and very bloody war untill somebody intervened.

That is why I am a bit reserved about the whole thing.

and Echinda, it was the spanish coast guard, if they were marocan marines at 200m from the marocan beach no less what would they do

open fire on the tiny guns? of course they'd call the big military ships

which obviously didnt came... hmmm.... how much reserved the spanish government is...

	13-07-2002 00:50									#50
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obviously as i thought its not just about that one piece of rock


By David Bamford
BBC News



The military stand-off that has been developing between Morocco and Spain around a group of tiny islands in the western Mediterranean has dramatically raised the stakes in a growing diplomatic feud between the two countries.

They have embarked on rival campaigns of gunboat diplomacy on a significant day as far as both countries are concerned.



The two governments may find they have started something they cannot easily subdue

For the Moroccans, it has coincided with the start of three days of public celebration marking the marriage of King Hassan the Sixth.

The Moroccan authorities have been quick to accuse Spain of deploying its warships close to Morocco with the specific intention of ruining the national festivities.

It must be said, though, that this concern did not deter Morocco from moving its token military force onto a tiny island claimed by Spain only days before the wedding party, surely knowing that this would provoke a Spanish response.

For the Spanish, the spat coincides with an announcement in London that Britain is prepared to share sovereignty with Spain in Gibraltar.

Nationalist emotions

Spain holds on to its enclaves in north Africa using very similar historical arguments as those used until now by Britain concerning its claim on Gibraltar.

Behind this dispute about these rocky Mediterranean outcrops is the fear in Madrid that Morocco is preparing to move against all the Spanish enclaves, in the same way that Morocco took over the Spanish-controlled Western Sahara in 1975.

Such a move now would be regarded by Spain as an act of war.

And even though both sides seem to be making an effort to limit this stand-off to a sabre-rattling exercise, nationalist emotions on both sides are increasing to such an extent that the two governments may find they have started something they cannot easily subdue.

	13-07-2002 01:01									#51
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What's the population of this rock?

	13-07-2002 01:05									#52
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there is no population i think. but it is not about the rock

	13-07-2002 01:11									#53
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Spain has reinforced its military presence on the Chafarinas Islands off the coast of Morocco amid growing tensions over another island.


This... constitutes a violation of Spanish territory

Gunar Wiegand, European Commission

Spain's Interior Minister Mariano Rajoy said additional soldiers were deployed after a Moroccan patrol boat was spotted near the Chafarinas, three islands which lie east of the Spanish enclave of Melilla and have been under Madrid's control since 1847.

Click here for a map of the area

Morocco had earlier rejected Spanish demands to withdraw a group of soldiers from the disputed islet of Perejil - which Morocco calls Leila - which lies to the north-west of the Spanish enclave of Ceuta.

The troops landed on the islet - the size of a football pitch - and raised two flags there.

Rabat said the soldiers were setting up an observation post on the islet to help combat terrorism and illegal immigration, and had "every right" to be there.

'Worrying'

This is the latest in a series of spats between the two countries in recent months, which have raised tensions and led to Morocco withdrawing its ambassador from Madrid.

Fraught relations
October 2001: Morocco withdraws Madrid ambassador
January 2002: Morocco says proposed Spanish oil prospection off the Canary Isles is "unfriendly" act
April: Spain says it is up to Morocco to decide whether to reinstate Madrid ambassador
June: Moroccan press attacks Spain over immigration policy
July: Morocco protests at Spanish warships cruising too close to its coast

Perejil, which is just 200 metres from the Moroccan mainland and lies within its territorial waters, remains disputed between the two sides.

The Spanish statement said Morocco's move was "a modification of the status-quo and did not correspond to the wish to maintain friendly relations between the two countries".

While calling for calm, the Spanish foreign minister described it as "a serious and worrying incident".

The European Union condemned the presence of the Moroccan troops on the islet, but refused to get directly involved in what it saw as a bilateral dispute.

"This is clearly a regrettable incident. It constitutes a violation of Spanish territory," European Commission spokesman Gunar Wiegand said.

A senior Moroccan official told the Spanish news agency, EFE, that since the 1970s Moroccan troops had sometimes entered the area for security reasons, and that there had not been a Spanish presence there since 1956.

Further disputes

Under a 1956 agreement, Spain has kept the coastal enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, which it had held for centuries.

But Morocco strongly disputes Spanish control over several rocky islands.

Other issues of major dispute between the two countries include clandestine immigration to Spain from Morocco's coastline and the non-renewal of a European Union fishing accord with Morocco.

The two countries also have differences over Western Sahara and more recently regarding the prospecting for oil off the Spanish Canary Islands in the north Atlantic.

Last week, the Moroccan foreign minister also protested to Spain about the deployment of five Spanish naval warships close to its coast.

	13-07-2002 02:23									#54
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FRANCE SURRENDURS!

hooters,

The french navy have scuttled there ships and raised the white flag to a Morrocan fishing boat cruising off the southern coast thursday. With 3 men on board. Details are sketchy, but it appears the men were armed with a tazer, several gutting knives, and some tasteless porno. Reporters were quoted as saying they could see several french battleships in the harbor with white flags.

More at 11

	13-07-2002 03:41									#55
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The French Army Chief of Staff was quoted as saying: "After the pounding the Spanish took, the men just lost all hope. Vive le Morrocco du Nord!"

	18-07-2002 02:24									#57
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The mighty Spanish have now defeated the 6 Moroccan soldiers and reoccupied the island!!!http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/2133787.stm

	18-07-2002 02:27									#58
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They'll have to use 12 soldiers this time to get it back.

	18-07-2002 02:46									#59
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quote: The mighty Spanish have now defeated the 6 Moroccan soldiers and reoccupied the island!!!

The operation took place at about 0615 (0415 GMT) and involved naval units, special ground forces and combat aircraft, Spanish media reported.

quote: at's the population of this rock?

A dozen or so goats. An interview with the own of those goats was in the newspaper today. (don't ask my why though).

	18-07-2002 02:51									#60
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I read the interview with the owner of the goats. She seemed like a nice old gal. I wonder if she is going to make lunch for the Spaniards like she did for the Morroccans. War is hell.