13-07-2002 03:07									#1
	Election: Minister of Public Works Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

This is the election for our Minister of Public Works (the real one ).

Query:
Who should be our next Minister of Public Works?

Candidates:
GePap (DIA)
GoodFella (UFC)

End:
5 Days, July 16th 2002

	13-07-2002 05:57									#2
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Why are there two PW Minister election threads?

	13-07-2002 05:58									#3
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Why are there two PW Minister election threads?

Because my list confused me, and I ended up putting up the wrong candidates.

	13-07-2002 10:04									#4
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Not allowed to fall of the first page QUITE yet.

Ming, where are you...

	13-07-2002 12:19									#5
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Here is my platform and at the bottom a link to the campaign thread for this position:



Although I am somewhat new here I have been taking an active part in the Democracy Game and feel that I could elevate Apolytonia by serving it and its citizens as the Minister of Public Works.

Here are my goals if elected to office:

I will push for more workers so we can improve ournation faster. We have the advantage of being an industrious people, but it is up to us to make use of this advantage. We cannot use it as an excuse to use less workers just to maintain the same level of worker production as our non-industrious neighbors. We must take advantage of our industrious nature by building more workers and engineering our terrain faster than any of our opponents so we can leave them in the dust.

All these workers will be needed for the huge project of relandscaping the Notylopa Jungle for improved production and landscaping. We may be stuck in a jungle, but with our industrious workers we can turn this humid hellhole into a paradise.

Soon we will be going to war, and in this war I support the capture of as many workers as possible and the capture of as many cities as possible. With captured workers close withing the vacinity of these captured cities, we can quickly turn these cities into important production centers for the empire.

I promise to listen to the will of the people. I wil frequently ask you on this board what actions you believe will best serve our nation and will accomadate my plans according to them.

I also promise to work closely with other ministruies and the president. Working together closely will allow us to prosper by making everything within our empire to work as best as it possibly can. I will closest with the City Planner, Minister of Economy, Minister of Imperial Expansion, and the Supreme Military Commander, as they are the ones who rely the most on a strong public works program.

Thankyou for taking the time to read this and please ask me questions about my platform.



Minister of Public Works Campaign Thread

	13-07-2002 12:43									#6
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and a link to that other Public Works campaign thread...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=55149

To be fair... here is GoodFella's too...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=55575

	14-07-2002 05:23									#7
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Wow, 21 votes for each candidate. THAT's what I call close

	14-07-2002 05:32									#8
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Good thing I didn't vote flippantly. I'm waiting for GePap to explain why I should vote for him, but he doesn't seem to be around at the moment.

This is one of the more important positions for the next 50 turns at least so I'm going to hold off and give each candidate every opportunity to win my vote.

	14-07-2002 05:56									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Wow, 21 votes for each candidate. THAT's what I call close

Not anymore.

*Let's go of his vote once the time is ripe*

	14-07-2002 05:59									#10
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I know neither of them. I flipped a coin .

	14-07-2002 06:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker I know neither of them. I flipped a coin .

Another educated voter at work again...

	14-07-2002 06:19									#12
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Hey, I was gone for a week. I wasn't there during the campaigning.

	14-07-2002 07:24									#13
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well by comparison, I have been around, but I feel like I don't know enough. Thus, I wont vote. I'm also not going to look it up because it is not of immediate concern to me, so I will leave it to those more interested.

	14-07-2002 12:29									#14
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If it helps, I would be happy to anwser any questions anyone may have for me.

	14-07-2002 12:32									#15
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alrighty GoodFella,

what are your stances on the War Academy's "Chariot Road"?

	14-07-2002 12:44									#16
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Although the idea of a pre-war road to America is a good one, sadly, we don't have the resources to fulfil it prior to the invasion. It is more important now for the terrain around the cities to be improved. It is not worth the trouble of delaying Plan Eagle to build a road that, although beneficial, is not crucial to the plan.

During the war though, I hope that many American workers will be captured which may be used to help link our new territories with our homeland.

I also support building roads to as many neighbors as possible once the pressures of the first war are over and we have more workers (hopefully many from America). This will allow faster movement for our troops in the event of a war and will open up trade options for our Empire.

	14-07-2002 13:25									#17
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How much more do our workers have to do before they could construct a road to Blue City then on to BananaHQ and ever on to New York?

	14-07-2002 14:09									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GoodFella I also support building roads to as many neighbors as possible once the pressures of the first war are over and we have more workers (hopefully many from America). This will allow faster movement for our troops in the event of a war and will open up trade options for our Empire.

Alright....What if right after we crush America, the people of Apolyton demand a war with France. Then France is crushed. The next nearest city is quite far away....Would you still support building a road to it then?

	14-07-2002 20:17									#19
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What he supports isn't really important. What's important is what MOST PEOPLE support.

	14-07-2002 20:35									#20
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker What he supports isn't really important. What's important is what MOST PEOPLE support.

What he supports is the most important thing about the election process..

what you have proven to fail to realise is that ministers are elected for their ideals and beliefs so that they may make their own decisions once elected... not to poll "MOST PEOPLE" ever turn.

	14-07-2002 20:46									#21
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Little decisions, such as individual workers or archers or etc. can be decided by the minister. However, the overall plan is decided by the people, and so he makes those decisions to be consistant with the plan.

	14-07-2002 21:05									#22
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so your gonna vote in a guy who, perhaps, has a big plan which differs from YOUR idea of it, and then complain and force him to change his mind once hes in office? no

you cant expect a minister to poll at all, never mind about plans and such.

Take for example my work as the Foreign Minister. I never once polled about how I should make my deals (and i made about a dozen I believe). I only made general polls on what nation we were going to war with, and that was only so i could avoid making deals with that nation (i havent made a deal with Amercia in a while...)

elections arent to post petty secretaries to move around pieces and toy with sliders.. elections are to give people the power to move a nation.

	14-07-2002 22:44									#23
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Even though you call this a democracy game, it's really a Republic. You elect people to act for you, and you vote for them because their platform matches yours (or close to it).

theoretically, a minister doesnt have to ask anyone's opinio on any issue, but they wouldn't get re-elected if it was against public will now would they

example: last turnchat niniot did the trades, without doing a "quickpoll" in the chatroom. that is his right, and i'm fairly sure not too many people opposesd it.

if they didnt like it they could ont vote him in. it's how the system works.

another example would be my insurrection into persian territory.

if you dont like it dont vote for me.

	15-07-2002 03:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX Even though you call this a democracy game, it's really a Republic. You elect people to act for you, and you vote for them because their platform matches yours (or close to it). theoretically, a minister doesnt have to ask anyone's opinio on any issue, but they wouldn't get re-elected if it was against public will now would they

Yep, and there are 2 roads to choose between...
Which is the most democratic?

1. It's something we call a representative democracy.
Like we have here with parties and all. We know this pretty well from many modern republics. There should also be a second political instance, capable of throwing demagogues and powerabusers out of office, in such a system.
We have only the impeachment option?
This is getting very US-like...

2. Another democratic solution is what we call a direct democracy (Like in Switzerland or Ancient Greek citystates.) A system where the people is responsible for voting on all major issues. And the executive govt. sorting out minor issues by them selves. Then the people itself is responsible for any bad judgement!


The problem in both solutions is when either the elected representatives, or the polling masses, are NOT acting responsible...

	15-07-2002 12:56									#25
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NYE, sorry its taken me so long to answer but I"ll do that now. I believe the invasion is 20 plans away from being carried out. I did some calculations that I'll post here tommarow if wanted (it is very late here) but basically our two workers would be pressed to get the road finished in time and would probably have to drop what they are doing now to do it. They can best serve our empire now by improving trrain around our cities. Thuis includes building more internal roads and other terrain improvements for when the cities grow which will be fairly soon (5 turns for Termina) unless a settler or another worker is built. I feel more productive cities would be more beneficial than a road to America.

As for building a road to other civs after war with America and after a possible war with France Tassadar, by then I am guessing we'll have built cities closer to our neighbors and they'll build cities closer to us. A city built for iron towards Persia is already being proposed which will bring us signifigantly closer to their border.

I hope that answers your questions .

	15-07-2002 15:07									#26
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Well, it looks like GePap is getting whipped...

It voted for him, but I suppose I can live with GoodFella too if I must.

	15-07-2002 21:28									#27
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It may be too late, but for the next 6 voters I would like to point out that if you vote for Goodfella, you are putting a great deal of power of our nation in the hand of the UFC.

Remember Ubers plans for building roads to other nations, just for our military to use? Who says another such plan may not come up. Instead of making roads for our cities and clearing jungle, we could end up with GoodFella being led along by uber to make vaste highways of destruction.

By voting GePap you are ensuring we will have in office someone who will always poll the people first, and not blindly follow the reckless paths of warmongers.

	15-07-2002 21:33									#28
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Actually, building roads of destruction would be pretty useless :
Roads are needed for our war chariots to move
We don't want a golden age now (huge majority for medieval era)
We won't attack with war chariots.

Don't fool yourself voting for a warmonger PW minitser, vote for a builder, the only one able to crate a good infrastructure to churn out units. Vote GePap !

	15-07-2002 23:01									#29
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I doubt that anyone would support the war roads anymore. This is just mudslinging, nothing else.

	16-07-2002 01:35									#30
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I see that Goodfella wanna close into other borders with our future settlements. Good! Well, I became a DIA member once, but that's got nothing to do with this kind of a direct democracy. So why bother with parties?

What I cannot see is GePaps opinions here.
Ok, I found a link to a campaign thread. But it's too late.

So who do I vote for? Easy...